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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Dear Topshop

59 replies

IfIwereMrGreen · 28/12/2018 12:19

I know that last year you changed your changing room policy to gender neutral (mixed sex).

Did you think about the impact of this?

Today, I had to use your changing rooms. I managed to find one cubicle that had a curtain that covered the entire doorway! The others didn't. If I had not found this cubicle I would have had to have left without purchasing anything as I don't feel comfortable exposing my wobbly bum to everyone!

I was really grateful to find this cubicle because after I started to undress I heard a man a few yards down from me persuading his partner to try on clothes. He was very loud and kept insisting that she tried the clothes on even though she kept saying that she wasn't sure and didn't really feel comfortable trying them on. By this point I was really happy that my curtain could fully close because he kept pacing up and down and if it couldn't close then he would have actually seen me in my undies!

When I left the cubicle, I saw a mother with a young teenage girl looking for a decent place to change. I told her about the cubicle that I had found with a good curtain and she thanked me. I said to her that it was difficult to find somewhere to change here with privacy. She agreed with me and went to the cubicle that I had shown them.

When leaving, I walked past the loud man. He was inside the cubicle with his partner still trying to get her to try on those clothes! She didn't look very happy.

The jeans I tried on didn't fit past my wobbly bum so I handed them to the changing room assistant on the way out. I asked her about the policy for allowing men into the changing rooms as I felt a little bit uncomfortable with a man being in there. She said that the policy has not come without problems. She said that they can't really ask a man to leave unless he is going into someone's changing cubicle. She also said that they have had men refusing to use the changing rooms upstairs in Topman as they prefer to use the changing rooms where young teenage girls and women go. I guess this is fair enough though as these gender neutral changing rooms are for everyone now! She said that it sometimes makes her feel uncomfortable when grown men go in there but she can't say anything. She referred to cross-dressers, but I didn't correct her terminology as she was only young and probably doesn't know about the stonewall trans umbrella.

Anyway, back to my point. I know it's nice to be nice and nice to include everyone so they can buy your clothes, but I decided to walk away from your store today without purchasing anything because I just felt so uncomfortable in those changing rooms with the loud man and the way he was treating g his partner. I also didn't like that your young staff have to make decisions about who they can let in to use the changing rooms, so they just let anybody in no matter how uncomfortable that makes them feel.

Regards,

A. Mumsnetter

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 28/12/2018 12:29

I hope you're sending that letter to the CEO of TopShop.

If they want to have mixed sex changing rooms (regardless of whether the majority of their customers like them) then they need to put in properly constructed cubicles with doors not curtains.

GenderIsAPrison · 28/12/2018 12:39

Dear Topshop,

Myself nor my teenage DD will be buying anything from your shops. Good luck with your retail sales as you follow a strategy of inclusion of trans to the exclusion of your main market segment.

GenderIsAPrison.

ChewyLouie · 28/12/2018 12:44

The CEO?? Philip Green with his injunction against sexual harassment claims. Good luck.
The people who enable this bullshit, agree with it.

VickyEadie · 28/12/2018 12:47

Both my teenage nieces are already aware of this dangerous nonsense and have already declared they will never enter Topshop again. Last term they were busy advising all their friends not to - via social media.

R0wantrees · 28/12/2018 12:53

from google search, TopShop UK:
Key people Ian Grabiner (CEO) Mary Homer (Managing director)

TinselandToblerones · 28/12/2018 12:56

Mixed sex changing rooms I can handle so long as those changing rooms have proper lockable floor to ceiling doors not those shitty curtains

Bigonesmallone3 · 28/12/2018 12:58

Isn't the problem more with I'll fitting curtains, surely if they had proper doors like a toilet door the issue is solved?

thefirstmrsdewinter · 28/12/2018 13:04

Isn't the problem more with I'll fitting curtains, surely if they had proper doors like a toilet door the issue is solved? But it's not an accident that they haven't solved it is it? They've made one change before the other, which does make it look either that (a) they want you to be exposed and uncomfortable or (b) they don't care.

thefirstmrsdewinter · 28/12/2018 13:06

'...does make it look like either'

Knicknackpaddyflak · 28/12/2018 13:07

Oh but men will never, ever, make use of self identified access to women's spaces to enjoy perving on women and girls!

The subtext of which is, oh well, men will be men, can't stop them doing it, girls and women probably shouldn't get undressed in public spaces if they don't want to be perved on. Anyway, it's worth a few women and girls suffering if it in some way comforts some poor trans person. Women and girls deserve it anyway 'cos privilege. (Any other shite misogynist arguments I've forgotten?)

ChewyLouie · 28/12/2018 13:11

The Arcadia Group is owned by Philip Green.

ChesterGreySideboard · 28/12/2018 13:19

I don’t mind mixed changing rooms if they have doors that close rather than a curtain.
My local Fat Face has a changing room with doors that open straight into the store.

I remember the dark days when TopShop changing rooms were just a room with mirrored walls. No cubicles at all.

VickyEadie · 28/12/2018 13:23

I remember the dark days when TopShop changing rooms were just a room with mirrored walls. No cubicles at all.

I was a teenager in the 70s and recall that all similar shops had that sort of changing room. As a very self-conscious (fat) teenage girl, I eschewed them completely.

Invisible1234 · 28/12/2018 13:46

I remember Topshop with no cubicles in the 80s and being stared at by another girl...I didn't go again. I didn't fear for my safety...some teenagers stare and judge others.

Only having curtains is a disgrace! They're useless for privacy when it's only girls and a safety issue with men there.

Original poster
IfIwereMrGreen · 28/12/2018 13:57

Only about 10 years ago I remember Primark having open changing rooms so I gave them a miss.

I went in today to have a nose. I haven't shopped there for years but I am desperately in need of jeans so I gave it a go. I'm almost glad that I went there already aware of the situation with the changing rooms.

It was my choice to go there and I was not surprised when a man was there too. What I did not like was the controlling nature of the man who took advantage of the mixed changing rooms to further control his partner and make her feel uncomfortable. It did not sound as though she had asked him to come in to help her make a decision, he was telling her what to do.

When I spoke to the member of staff I was quite surprised that she engaged in a conversation with me about this. People can see the damage that could / is being done but the big wigs just don't give a fuck.

OP posts:
starcrossedseahorse · 28/12/2018 14:28

Communal changing rooms - OMG they were hell. As a chubby teen who was incredibly private I HATED these and always felt stared at and judged by other girls (who were probably doing nothing of the sort but it is how I felt).

starcrossedseahorse · 28/12/2018 14:29

the big wigs just don't give a fuck Grin

starcrossedseahorse · 28/12/2018 14:30

Sorry - juvenile sense of humour attack.

PenguinRoar · 28/12/2018 14:31

Timely article from the Indy on invasions of privacy in changing rooms and other private spaces.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-spy-cameras-hidden-public-places-peeping-toms-a8689626.html

Mariotta · 28/12/2018 15:17

What I did not like was the controlling nature of the man who took advantage of the mixed changing rooms to further control his partner and make her feel uncomfortable.

That's what stuck out to me in your post, OP. Not only was an obnoxious bloke controlling a woman in a private space, he was also making the other women and girls uncomfortable. And that's what mixed sex spaces allow: much as transactivists might like to pretend otherwise, it's not all about them.

starcrossedseahorse · 28/12/2018 15:50

No escape for abused and controlled women when our sex segregated spaces have gone.

Invisible1234 · 28/12/2018 16:44

The effects are so far reaching and all for a tiny percentage of people who want to feel validated. How dare they?!

KindOfAGeek · 28/12/2018 18:31

She also said that they have had men refusing to use the changing rooms upstairs in Topman as they prefer to use the changing rooms where young teenage girls and women go.

No sh*t.

ShotsFired · 28/12/2018 18:32

I'd be heading up to the male changing rooms (if I somehow had no choice but to shop there).

At least up there you're far less likely to encounter crossdressing fetishists, voyeurs or sex pests. Could also use it as a handy opportunity to inform the male men why...

starcrossedseahorse · 28/12/2018 18:39

Good point Shots. When men are put out by women in their changing rooms maybe wheels will start to turn.

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