Dear Topshop

[IfIwereMrGreen]

I know that last year you changed your changing room policy to gender neutral (mixed sex).

Did you think about the impact of this?

Today, I had to use your changing rooms. I managed to find one cubicle that had a curtain that covered the entire doorway! The others didn't. If I had not found this cubicle I would have had to have left without purchasing anything as I don't feel comfortable exposing my wobbly bum to everyone!

I was really grateful to find this cubicle because after I started to undress I heard a man a few yards down from me persuading his partner to try on clothes. He was very loud and kept insisting that she tried the clothes on even though she kept saying that she wasn't sure and didn't really feel comfortable trying them on. By this point I was really happy that my curtain could fully close because he kept pacing up and down and if it couldn't close then he would have actually seen me in my undies!

When I left the cubicle, I saw a mother with a young teenage girl looking for a decent place to change. I told her about the cubicle that I had found with a good curtain and she thanked me. I said to her that it was difficult to find somewhere to change here with privacy. She agreed with me and went to the cubicle that I had shown them.

When leaving, I walked past the loud man. He was inside the cubicle with his partner still trying to get her to try on those clothes! She didn't look very happy.

The jeans I tried on didn't fit past my wobbly bum so I handed them to the changing room assistant on the way out. I asked her about the policy for allowing men into the changing rooms as I felt a little bit uncomfortable with a man being in there. She said that the policy has not come without problems. She said that they can't really ask a man to leave unless he is going into someone's changing cubicle. She also said that they have had men refusing to use the changing rooms upstairs in Topman as they prefer to use the changing rooms where young teenage girls and women go. I guess this is fair enough though as these gender neutral changing rooms are for everyone now! She said that it sometimes makes her feel uncomfortable when grown men go in there but she can't say anything. She referred to cross-dressers, but I didn't correct her terminology as she was only young and probably doesn't know about the stonewall trans umbrella.

Anyway, back to my point. I know it's nice to be nice and nice to include everyone so they can buy your clothes, but I decided to walk away from your store today without purchasing anything because I just felt so uncomfortable in those changing rooms with the loud man and the way he was treating g his partner. I also didn't like that your young staff have to make decisions about who they can let in to use the changing rooms, so they just let anybody in no matter how uncomfortable that makes them feel.

Regards,

A. Mumsnetter

At least up there you're far less likely to encounter crossdressing fetishists, voyeurs or sex pests. Could also use it as a handy opportunity to inform the male men why...

Safest solution, if you ask me. All the low risk men wouldn't dream of invading women's spaces and making them uncomfortable, however they identify (as the man and his partner in the OP illustrates). We'll be better off in the bit where the men who aren't flying endless red flags are.

So strange that businesses want to go down this route. My husband and every other normal bloke I know would hate the thought of going into a changing room that may have young girls in it! It's asking for a complaint to be made against them. Bloody madness! By all means have "gender neutral" changing rooms but they need to be completely separate a bit like the set up for "disabled toilets". Like a completely separate room.

I did say to the assistant that we should all go upstairs and she did say something along the lines of 'but women just wouldn't would they?' and I agreed.

Lots of women and girls just wouldn't barge into a space that wasn't designated for them. I certainly wouldn't go into a men's changing room for exactly the same reason as today.

They haven't thought it through, and they're scared of the tantrums and dramas of the TRA lobby. With Topshop it barely took whatzthename ordering them to 'sort it out' and they couldn't sling half the human race under the bus fast enough.

Always reminds me of the relationships board where people are advising a woman with a toxic relative, most usually a MiL, 'stop being the easier/less scary one to upset'.

Imagine your teenage daughter meeting this person in the changing room:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6536045/Furious-transgender-woman-rages-store-clerk-calls-sir-instead-maam.html

What will happen is that we'll teach our teenaged daughters, fgs don't use public toilets or changing rooms. Women already learn very young that if you see someone male bodied who you think is likely to be aggressive or dangerous to be around then get the fuck away from them as quickly and quietly as you can. It will be only a matter of time before an assaulted woman hears in court 'but you knew dodgy blokes like to hang around in the women's changing room so why did you go in there?'

It really is a case of women kick off, now, hard and loud and strong, or we accept being driven out of public spaces. By a tiny group who could not give a flying fuck for the reality or the needs of the sex they claim to identify as.

And that's why I haven't been in since the changing room policy changed.

I'm wondering if any shops actually still have women only fitting rooms and actually enforce it (ie tell a man or crossdresser to take his stuff to the mens). And what about women like me who do get mistaken on first sight quite often, worth some inconvenience for maintaining our private spaces though.

In this case of not putting young women first, its owned by Phil Green. Go figure.

Look, if you want to appeal to the big wigs, you have to threaten their bottom line, not appeal to their conscience:

Send a copy of this article (or something like it) attached to your letter, saying you found it helpful, and that if their store isn't female friendly, online shopping can be:

www.wikihow.com/Order-Jeans-Online

Why just Topshop?

This pointless post could have been aimed at very many other stores.

How is it pointless?

I'd be heading up to the male changing rooms (if I somehow had no choice but to shop there).

Ah, but are the men's changing rooms now all access or would a woman get told to leave?

Come on kittens, you know the answer!

"I identify as a man, please let me pass"

Bingo.

Ah, but are the men's changing rooms now all access or would a woman get told to leave?

Didn't manfriday find umpteen times it matters when men are affected but not the reverse. That may answer that question.

Yeah I suspect that somehow the rule will be found to be flexible if a man complains.

Ah, but are the men's changing rooms now all access or would a woman get told to leave?

There have been recent challenges to shops preventing females who identify as non-binary using male changing rooms.

Slow- I was there today and saw in real life the consequences of this. Other stores have this policy too I believe. I think M&S is another (please correct me if I am wrong).

The reason why I mentioned that the store was Topshop was that they were in the news this year because of a TW who demanded that they change in the female changing rooms.

My point was that some controlling men will use this as an opportunity to never leave women alone. A wife / girlfriend not being able to choose their own clothes. Young girls and women who want privacy searching for a good enough cubicle.

It doesn't matter where it is, but Topshop was discussed on here a while back and I am reporting my first hand experience in the store.

Yes to M&S - certainly where I live anyway. There are cubicles but they are open at the top and bottom so useless for privacy. I no longer use them or shop there after encountering a cocky teenage boy in what used to be the ladies changing room.

But Topshop Travis isn't a TW, he is a cross dresser. He just complained because

Travis Alabanza on Radio 4 Today program this morning (07:30) asserting their want of 'non-binary' rights:
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3462982-Radio-4-cis-people-who-are-safe-in-the-world

I think the safest place for women is now the men's loos and changing rooms. It's where the decent men are whilst the dodgy ones have all moved to the women's.

The more and more I think about this, the more I am practising a deliberately loud "I'd like to try this on here please - there is a man behaving very suspiciously in the ladies changing and he won't leave"

Or even simpler:

"There's a man harrassing women in the ladies changing and he refuses to leave. It's not safe there"

SlowNorris

This pointless post could have been aimed at very many other stores.

Speaking of controlling...