"There is no genetic test that can conclusively determine a person’s sex or gender."

[Macareaux]

...according to s letter signed by 700 biologists and 100 scientists.

This is the sort of thing thrown at us - how does one argue against such a weight of opinion

I can't help feeling that people have been so indoctrinated by gender ideology and that they hate everything Trump does in principle that critical faculties have gone out of the window.

Oh - and bowl - I always appreciate your posts on this subject.

Sorry FWR. Posting in the early hours with a baby stuck to me. Your initial point was valid - my bad

Some people believe the earth is flat. Fair enough, they're entitled to believe that if they want, but if they demanded that maritime navigation charts be amended to show spots where a stray ship might fall over the edge of the world I think the rest of us would be fully entitled to A. point and laugh, and then B. tell them that no, we will not be amending the charts.

But OMG don't you see how transphobic that is, Angry? I mean, I am sure that there are some navigators / seamen who are trans and denying them their belief in a flat world is denying their existence and is literal violence and OMG the feelz.

You may not believe in gravity, but it believes in you!

You mean...you mean..gravity is an ally?

If gravity was nice it would stop and ask whether you identified as a corporeal being or whether you'd prefer to be able to zoom around like you were in the Matrix.

Perhaps so people will stop chucking them out of bathrooms?

In the U.K. a bathroom is a room with a bath and you won’t find one outside a hotel or a house, so you are very likely to be chucked out if you are there without permission.

There are no laws to prevent anyone entering any public toilet, although people are usually warned when an opposite sex cleaner may be present.

The issue is the ability of women to enforce their rights under the Equalities Act if biological sex can’t be recognised.

The existence of two sexes in mammals is pretty well established. Ask a farmer.

"Bathrooms..."

Had her church asked her to sign a ‘scientists for the belief in the creation as per genesis ‘ letter she probably would have. what she wouldn’t have had is any evidence to support her belief.

I knew someone who admitted that the main reason for her applying for her PhD student place (in a structural biology group) was so she could defend creationism with the authority of a PhD from one of the top Scottish Universities behind her. She was a Wee Free, or a Wee Wee Free, not sure. Weird.

Some people believe the earth is flat. Fair enough, they're entitled to believe that if they want, but if they demanded that maritime navigation charts be amended to show spots where a stray ship might fall over the edge of the world I think the rest of us would be fully entitled to A. point and laugh, and then B. tell them that no, we will not be amending the charts.

Literal violence!

Yes I love the way British transactivists and their allies parrot the same old dog whistling crap about "bathrooms" as the American ones do.

A lot of identity politics is imported directly from the US. It’s why students obsess over the ‘cultural appropriation’ of Mexican food and sombreros rather than, say, Polish food and fashions. Mexicans aren’t an oppressed minority in the UK but these people are too fucking dumb not to follow the American lead.

If there is no biology to it then why do all these people want to change their physical form?? Can ANYONE explain that to me.

Perhaps so people will stop chucking them out of bathrooms?

This seems like a bit of an upside-down argument to me. Someone physically male tries to use the women's toilets (I assume that's what you mean), and they get thrown out, because they are clearly male.

Surely the answer there is to use the men's toilets, with all the other male-bodied people. Not to go to enormous lengths to try to make their body resemble a female body.

So can you think of any other reasons, NonExistentFox?

“Sorry FWR. Posting in the early hours with a baby stuck to me. Your initial point was valid - my bad”

Hey no problemo. I would do the cookie/flowerthing but don’t know how... ;)

Sorry FWR there you go ;)

I'm confused. In that case, why do we (rightly) fork out extra to get the chromosome results rushed through when a baby is born with difficult to determine genitalia? If it matters so little, maybe we could save the NHS some money... Or maybe actually biology does matter.