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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Can I ask you to talk to your family about this over Christmas?

31 replies

Gentlygently · 20/12/2018 08:27

Petition to stop men being allowed in women’s prisons.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

It needs another 2300 signatures to get a government response.

OP posts:
ReynoldsGirl · 20/12/2018 08:38

Signed

Mumfun · 20/12/2018 09:41

Good call!

SnuggyBuggy · 20/12/2018 09:54

Already signed this one but will share

JellySlice · 20/12/2018 10:15

Signed.

andyoldlabour · 20/12/2018 10:15

Both my wife and I have signed this a week ago. I have tried to make people aware of the general problem of male bodied people being allowed to self ID then gain access to women's safe spaces, and this more specific problem regarding women's prisons, but one of the most disappointing responses came from a female relation, who is a teacher, who basically accused me of being transphobic.

ILuvBirdsEye · 20/12/2018 10:22

I am practicing my elevator pitch.... trying to balance between a rant and saying so little as to be incomprehensible.

Luvey · 20/12/2018 10:28

What if they've had surgery? Which prison should they go to?

VeggyGravy · 20/12/2018 10:31

What if they've had surgery? Which prison should they go to?

We really need a trans prison for those situations but tras don't actually care enough about trans people to fight for those. It's about validation.

I really don't want a transwoman who has had surgery is doing time for a non violent act in a men's prison. I would expect that they would be a huge target for sexual abuse.

Equally that men are pigs is not the problem of women and we shouldn't take on the risk ourselves.

WeRiseUp · 20/12/2018 10:31

What if they've had surgery? Which prison should they go to?

Prisons should be sex segregated.

Humans can't change sex, even with surgery.

Therefore prisoners should go into the correct estate for their sex.

Simple.

CaptainWarbeck · 20/12/2018 10:32

Signed

VeggyGravy · 20/12/2018 10:36

Humans can't change sex, even with surgery. Therefore prisoners should go into the correct estate for their sex.

No, not simple at all. They cannot change sex but a person who looks female and has had SRS and fake breasts would spend the rest of their time being sexually abused. So no, they really don't belong with the men.

There is absolutely no reason to not have a third option.

Original poster
Gentlygently · 20/12/2018 10:44

In relation to the surgery point, all the petition asks for is that the rules (which currently let fully intact males who are in prison for sex offences get placed in women's prisons) are reviewed.

It is possible of course that some men would be let in after the review. But clearly there is a need for a review.

OP posts:
SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 20/12/2018 11:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jessstan2 · 20/12/2018 11:26

Why over Christmas?

Original poster
Gentlygently · 20/12/2018 11:40

Well I find it easier to bring up this conversation after spending some time with a person, and with my extended family I do that over Christmas. Something I can bring up if I have 3-4 hours to see them, that I might not if I just had a half hour chat.

OP posts:
SnuggyBuggy · 20/12/2018 11:50

Probably a need a separate specialist wing in some men's prisons

Squigglicious · 20/12/2018 12:50

They’ve got specialist wings in mens prisons already. They know who to keep away from the general populace for safety.

gendercritter · 20/12/2018 12:53

Signed and will share it with others, thanks

Original poster
Gentlygently · 20/12/2018 14:45

My view is that men (as a class) are a danger to women (as a class). Therefore the starting assumption should be that the addition of any male to a women's prison increases the risk to women.

Is the increased safety of that man worth the decreased safety to many women?

OP posts:
SnuggyBuggy · 20/12/2018 14:47

I figured mixed prisons were abolished for a reason and I don't see how a man identifying as a woman is any different from a man that doesn't

VeggyGravy · 20/12/2018 14:49

A man who "who looks female and has had SRS and fake breasts" isn't women's problem to solve.

No one has implied that it is. We really need a trans prison for those situations but tras don't actually care enough about trans people to fight for those. It's about validation.

Sex segregation is crucial for women's safety and dignity.

No arguments here.

It's not actually the job of TRas to solve this either to be really fair though. The government is aware it has a problem with male rape in prisons. It also knows it is paying for SRS for MTF people who sometimes end up in prisons. There doesn't need to be a think tank they know exactly what needs to happen. They need to deal with all male rape as well but TW would be particularly vulnerable.

userschmoozer · 20/12/2018 14:51

The law says no one has to have any surgery, so that's a red herring.

Aristaeus76 · 20/12/2018 15:14

Self ID men should not be put into women's prisons, but I'm not going to talk to my family about it over Christmas, Jeez.

Doilooklikeatourist · 20/12/2018 15:18

Signed

Thingybob · 20/12/2018 16:29

It's not actually the job of TRas to solve this either to be really fair though

I don't understand that comment, surely TRAs should be advocating and campaigning for the safety of all members of the community they represent?

I've never been to prison and am not likely to go, but I will support the rights and safety of other members of my group (women) who are in prison.