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Original poster

For any journalists - misuse of the legal system and police

53 replies

Bowlofbabelfish · 19/12/2018 08:04

A bit of an open letter/post/plea I suppose.

are you aware that individuals are using the court system to suppress free speech? People like Posie Parker are being pursued legally for speakibg biological truths. they will come for the press next.*

are you aware that some individuals are trying to make ‘misgendering’ a crime? theyll come for you next.*

are you aware that some individuals are trying to erase their past criminal history by using the courts to argue that crimes were committed in a deadname? how do you feel about being unable to report on crime of the perp changes their gender?*

  • are you aware that the CEO of mermaids is alleged to have said in her TEDx talk that her child’s close friend during transition is now a member of the West Yorkshire police’s hate crime unit? Are you aware that in a time of stretched resources some individuals are using the police to intimidate people speaking truths about them?

Are you aware that the group TELI was set up to create legal precedents?

YOUR ability to report and speak is what they will go after next. Once they’ve dragged a few private citizens through the courts to establish precedent they will muzzle you as well.

OP posts:
BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 19/12/2018 08:17

Yes

being able to accurately tell the sex of a fellow human being is not a hate crime

I use the pronouns he/him for people that I perceive as male
I use the pronouns she / her for people that I perceive as female

There are people who want to control the pronouns that we use, thus limiting our ability to accurately describe our perception of the world

This is a free speech issue

Where are the journalists?

Freeware · 19/12/2018 08:24

Top down

Blocking free speech
Dismantling safeguarding
No criticism
Science denial
Compelled speech
Training professionals to gaslight service users

HandsOffMyRights · 19/12/2018 08:37

Ah Susie's chums, TELI

For any journalists - misuse of the legal system and police
Original poster
Bowlofbabelfish · 19/12/2018 08:45

It is a free speech issue. And a criminal justice issue. And potentially, if the allegations of Green having close links with the police are true, and if the allegations of people using scare police resources for their own agendas are true, it could even be looked at as a police corruption issue.

Weve seen some journalists do great pieces on specific issues. But now we need someone to look deeper at what connects all this. To follow the trail of money and power and sex.

Rather a lot of the detective work has already been done here

OP posts:
heresyandwitchcraft · 19/12/2018 08:46

They will come for you next
This whole thread and its message is worth repeating until every member of the press and public gets it.

LangCleg · 19/12/2018 09:24

Rather a lot of the detective work has already been done here

Yes, it has. And we have curated the threads well - particular thanks, as ever, to R0 - so it's all here, just waiting for someone with the training to pull it all together.

Great thread, Bowl.

LizzieSiddal · 19/12/2018 09:31

It’s very chilling when you see everything put together in one post.

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 19/12/2018 09:57

Yes! I've thought for ages we need a Carole Cadwalladr or similar to look into all this in depth and unpick all the different aspects - funding, influence on organizations, legal aspects, silencing of opposition etc.

Danaquestionseverything · 19/12/2018 10:04

What a great post OP. I agree with everything you've said. I do wonder though to what extent journalists (as well as your average person in the street) are protected by "freedom of speech" in the U.K.? I only ask for two reasons:

  1. In Australia our laws are more closely aligned to yours than say the US. I'm sure some of you have followed the Evie Amati story and seen how carefully pronouns were adhered to.

  2. From what I've observed (apart from a handful of brave journalists) the same pattern is occurring over there. Although I do recall reading somewhere that some organisation was instructing media about correct pronouns, possibly requiring them to sign on in agreement?

I believe where the journalists really need to make a stand is to do with dead naming. Even with reports using correct pronouns, there is generally a paragraph that reads along the lines of Jane Brown was born as Joe Bloggs etc etc.

BowlofBabelfish is raising an incredibly important point. As journalists your job is to report the facts to the public.

RedHoodGirl · 19/12/2018 10:06

I think it would be Wiltshire police investigating Posie Parker, not West Yorkshire? Has Mermaids got any connection with Wiltshire police? I’m sure I saw somewhere that Posie said that Wiltshire police were supportive of her?

SunsetBeetch · 19/12/2018 10:16

West Yorkshire police contacted Wiltshire Police.

AspieAndProud · 19/12/2018 10:37

Rather a lot of the detective work has already been done here

But not, alas, by detectives.

The corrupting effect on the police needs to be taken as seriously as infiltration of the police by far right groups.

Original poster
Bowlofbabelfish · 19/12/2018 10:44

Journalists need to really make the public aware of the difference between free critical speech, laws that say ‘if you say something that incites hatred against a group you break this law’ and compelled speech

Eg.

Free critical speech: the church of the spaghetti monster is embezzling money and harbours criminals

Hateful speech: assemble with pitchforks at the next worship of the church of the spaghetti monster and rough them up

Compelled speech: say the flying spaghetti monster is your lord and saviour or burn

We are getting into the realm of compelled speech here. What’s being made to be verboten is criticism of the religion of transgenderism. Maria mac was instructed in court to use female pronouns for her attacker and when she didn’t the court reduced the attackers sentence. that is compelled speech. in a court of law. In the uk.

Journalists- your very existence as a profession relies on being able to use language accurately and truthfully.

OP posts:
WeRiseUp · 20/12/2018 10:36

Bump

arranbubonicplague · 20/12/2018 11:03

I'd like the journalists and various fact checking organisations (like Full Fact, BBC Reality Check, the C4 one) to consider what this all means for data collection and analysis.

Needmoresleep · 20/12/2018 11:05

Bowl, The Daily Mail have been traditionally good at fighting legal constraints on free speech includiing secrecy used in family courts and the use of super-injunctions by celebrities.

They also have a journalist who has written some good GC articles. Is it worth contacting her.

The misgendering thing is scary. There is a person who runs a cafe near me: nice cafe, friendly person, good food, where I really don't know if they are male or female. Short and muscular, with short hair and many tattoos. Butch woman or short man? Misgendering would be easy. Even more so with my mother who has Alzheimers who has lost the capacity for political correctness, indeed for common politeness.

hackmum · 20/12/2018 13:27

Needmoresleep: I think the journalist you're thinking of is Sanchez Manning of the Mail on Sunday. It would definitely be worth approaching her - I know the DM has a bigger reporting budget than most other newspapers and I imagine the same applies to the MoS.

Andrew Gilligan (Sunday Times) or Lucy Bannerman (Times) are the other two who could look into this, if they're not already doing so.

Original poster
Bowlofbabelfish · 20/12/2018 16:12

Ah R0wan I was hoping you would put some links in. Thank you, you’re a star. Walking encyclopaedia Grin

OP posts:
MsMcWoodle · 20/12/2018 16:22

I've not really up to date on here - but I haven't notices any mention of Sandy Draws Badly being got at - are people aware?

Original poster
Bowlofbabelfish · 20/12/2018 16:26

Something new mrsmac? I know she’s had all sorts of general crap thrown at her. Nothing too awful I hope ? Sad

OP posts:
MsMcWoodle · 20/12/2018 16:30

From yesterday:
This is my past 24hrs. Threatened with legal action for cartooning my opinions of transitioning children and those who encourage it.
I believe in free speech and the right to criticise an ideology that encourages children to a life of medical intervention and sterility.

MsMcWoodle · 20/12/2018 16:33

I am so angry. Glad of this thread as I am writing to my mp. Too much of this.

Hefzi · 20/12/2018 16:46

I think, unfortunately, that this is a direct result of the laws on hate crime: once you have a law that is defined by the opinion of the victim (or, as the law around hate crime puts it, "perceives") rather than something being objectively illegal, this is bound to be the next step. Unfortunately, the majority of the public were flapping around saying how wonderful it was that racists/gay bashers would be punished, conveniently ignoring the fact that we already had laws that could - and did deal with that appropriately.

The lack of critical thinking in this country terrifies me - people don't seem able to follow these ideas through to their logical conclusion: Groupthink of any kind is always dangerous, as we're seeing - where does it end, if telling a verifiable truth (or fact) is a crime? Very sad and worrying times.

stillathing · 20/12/2018 16:59

This is such an important thread.
Bullies. They will never be able to alter reality. Nature doesn't give a crap. All they are doing is hurting people and destroying feminism and left wing politics.