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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why does MN feminism focus on trans?

83 replies

Bestwestpest · 16/12/2018 00:49

Just that really. I'm admittedly not sold on the whole trans agenda. But aren't there bigger issues? I fear there are greater risks to women from men than from trans 'women'.

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 16/12/2018 09:24

I think words are very important - should I have a rethink?

I agree that words are very important, so too context!

SarahCarer · 16/12/2018 09:36

It was the need to protect autistic girls and particularly my own autistic dd from the trans genderist ideology that brought me here but it has reawakened and sharpened my feminism in 100 different ways as a result, ways that help me support women in real life. Genderist ideology is the latest front of the battle but in fighting it we sharpen our swords, skills and understanding for every other battle.

AornisHades · 16/12/2018 10:02

It's a shame Prof Sally Hines didn't explain that the word female is transphobic on Woman's Hour. I think that would have clarified matters for every single listener who wasn't already peaked.

Notevenmyrealname · 16/12/2018 10:04

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/business/third-bosses-avoid-hiring-women-could-have-children-soon/

This is an article from earlier this year and the comments beneath it are frightening. I have two DC. Coincidentally so does my DH. Nobody makes any assumptions about his commitment to his job as a result of this but they would about mine. The negative stereotypes women live with every day are rooted in assumptions made because of our biology. This is happening to people right now from all classes, races, religions and sexual orientations. If you create ambiguity when it comes to defining the word woman, you create a loophole for people with dishonest intentions to continue doing things like this. Stonewall and other charities refuse to acknowledge that sex discrimination is even a thing and I find that beyond comprehension.

Being against self-ID is not an attack on trans people. I don’t presume every trans woman is a sex offender nor that they do not deserve the right to live their life however they like. I do however want my rights preserved so that when I or anyone else faces discrimination, we have the means to fight it.

deepwatersolo · 16/12/2018 10:14

It is ridiculous enough that I am forced to use the word ‚female‘ because ‚woman‘ doesn‘t mean shit any more these days. Then basically calling me transphobic for it is really adding insult to injury.

Datun · 16/12/2018 10:20

It is ridiculous enough that I am forced to use the word ‚female‘ because ‚woman‘ doesn‘t mean shit any more these days. Then basically calling me transphobic for it is really adding insult to injury.

That's the point. You found a way to not comply and will be punished.

Personally, I have never understood the way the words women and female seem to have different value attached to them. They mean the same thing to me.

I guess tranactivists think that appropriating the word female is a bridge too far, even for them. (It won't be). But to me, it's no different than the word woman.

feministfairy · 16/12/2018 10:31

Nice response OP. It's terrifying isn't it when you start to look beneath the 'let's be kind and inclusive' banner and realise that the very identity of woman is being removed from us.

KindOfAGeek · 16/12/2018 10:39

You've got the question backwards.

Currently, there's a gender studies prof on twitter right now tweeting about how feminism shouldn't be about women (won't link, but it's a meme other folks keep trying to bring up --- feminism would be oh so nice if it were only about us, and not those cis scum types).

The question is, why are trans folks and their collaborators colonizing feminism?

Answer that questions, and you'll see why it keeps coming up here.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 16/12/2018 10:40

its like asking why people are all smoking in a smoking shelter - it's because they can't anywhere else

Oooh very nice...i like that

I dont offer much in the way of debate on these threads...but i really dont like the idea of women NOT being able to discuss stuff because it makes some people uncomfortable

As long as its within the guidelines of whichever forum they are on, and yes there are what I consider to be transphobic posts on here, which are deleted when reported...doesnt make the site transphobic or everyone who posts on FWR

Dont like the threads? Start your own

And part of the reason these trans threads last for 1000 posts is that some people feel they have to have the last word...even when it no longer bears any resemblance to the OP

RetiredNotExpired · 16/12/2018 10:42

That twitter comment posted by CosmicCanary isn't the only ludicrous statement made by SH last night. This type of deluded thinking does nothing to protect - and certainly not to promote - female rights & issues.

Why does MN feminism focus on trans?
Horsewithnomane · 16/12/2018 10:51

It is ridiculous enough that I am forced to use the word ‚female‘ because ‚woman‘ doesn‘t mean shit any more these days.

I don't feel that and as I said earlier I am bringing up children to use the word woman. The word they sometimes use is 'lady' ffs.

I could say:

A lady asked me the time.
A woman asked me the time.
A female asked me the time.

Well, the first one makes me sound like a toddler and the third just sounds weird.

Non?

KindOfAGeek · 16/12/2018 10:52

Yeah, that shark has been jumped.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 16/12/2018 10:54

the word female is transphobic

Because using it states there is still a category of biological women which does not include males.

As Datun says, you are not complying, and will be punished. The whole point of this is forcing everyone to agree that a man is a woman in every single way if he says so, and eliminating language and any kind of definition or provision for women that does not specifically validate that man as a woman.

Giving an inch - such as being polite about, ok we'll say transwomen are socially a type of woman if it makes them happy, and using chosen pronouns is just polite - is just grabbed as an inch of ground gained in compliance that can be further exploited, and they start work on the next piece of ground. Read up on compliance training and grooming in abuse tactics. Slice by slice.

Fuck. That.

Annandale · 16/12/2018 10:56

(Sorry to hijack but that tweet has got to be a joke. Surely?

I've lived the most privileged middle class life known to woman and I still deal with shit based in biology and resulting in discrimination every fucking day.

Very funny prof Hines. Looking forward to reading the real article.)

Dragon3 · 16/12/2018 11:01

So Sally Hines is planning to write about why bio sex is no longer applicable to feminist activism? That seems like an excellent use of time and research money Hmm

Meanwhile, bio women are being murdered by domestic partners at a rate of two a week. Experiencing pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding. Menstruation and menopause. Sexism. FGM. Not applicable, though.

Dragon3 · 16/12/2018 11:03

I should have just said women. Not bio women (what other kind is there?)

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 16/12/2018 11:04

Sorry best

Should point out that the

Start your own thread comment isnt aimed at you, ive just seen it a lot on here

Knicknackpaddyflak · 16/12/2018 11:05

And look at the sheer manipulativeness of it:

Female is a word that cannot be got around - an implication that there is a bit of woman not yet fully conquered.

So:

Bring on the dodgy pseudo science throwing as much fog onto the concept of female as possible

Appropriate and use any possible community, disability, animal or anything else that throws more fog onto the concept of female

Pull out all the clichés and tedious tropes about 'dehumanising language' and 'exclusion' and wave around a whole lot of appropriated language and phrases from disability rights in the hope that they dogwhistle people into associating total bullshit with justified inclusion

Make dark hints and threats of what failing to comply might do to vulnerable people and jump up and down on anyone with a normal social conscience to try and activate their guilt, shame, sense of responsibility and direct it where they want it

Tell everyone, repeatedly, that a common word is rude and offensive and unkind with the hope that if they bang on about it long enough it'll fade into the general consciousness

Publicly threaten and terrorise any woman who makes enough noise or gains enough attention in pointing out, arguing with or resisting these tactics, and ensure she is made an example of to scare other women (and MPs ffs) from daring to say that Emperor is Stark Bollock Naked and Looking Like A Prat. (moan a bit about men, but basically leave them alone.)

Basically the entire general public now needs access to the freedom programme and a free copy of 'why does he do that' by Lundy Bancroft.

BrienneofTERF · 16/12/2018 11:08
  1. If we can’t recognise the biological basis of female oppression we can’t have a feminist movement which seeks to eradicate our oppression. The TRA movement argues viciously against the material reality of female oppression.
  2. The TRA movement has the backing of key government players and multinational corporations which are currently acting to women’s disadvantage.
  3. The TRA lobby are coming for our children hard and fast with propaganda based on bad science ( or more frequently nothing more than feels) which if accepted would result in many of our children being convinced to have healthy body parts removed aswell as a life long dependency on expensive and toxic drugs.
CrazyToast · 16/12/2018 11:10

Because it is a huge current issue currently in consultation. Lots of activism as a result, abuse and threats to women, debate about the very meaning of what it is to be a woman, the possible threat to our rights if sex is taken out of things etc. That's why people are talking about it

LangCleg · 16/12/2018 11:11

Basically the entire general public now needs access to the freedom programme and a free copy of 'why does he do that' by Lundy Bancroft.

Correct.

R0wantrees · 16/12/2018 11:15

Basically the entire general public now needs access to the freedom programme and a free copy of 'why does he do that' by Lundy Bancroft.

Yes absoutely.

R0wantrees · 16/12/2018 11:19

Knicknackpaddyflak

If the substantial amount of money due to be gifted to Mermaids Charity from the Lottery is held back, the funds could be available to make a start.

Imagine how this might help all young people if they had access to the information and awareness at schools & universities?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3452489-Mermaids-given-500-000-by-National-Lottery-Sunday-Times

Knicknackpaddyflak · 16/12/2018 11:27

I agree R0

Drastic action on reducing domestic abuse and violence of all kinds, that would really work.

R0wantrees · 16/12/2018 11:50

Drastic action on reducing domestic abuse and violence of all kinds, that would really work.

& control, especially coercive control. Mumsnet & Women's Aid recent video: