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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

DM: I believe I'm proof no man can truly become a woman

60 replies

TimeLady · 14/12/2018 06:48

A poignant story in the Mail today

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6493959/Transsexual-warn-reality-transexual.html

OP posts:
Funkyfunkybeat12 · 14/12/2018 07:02

This is very sad and it’s why it’s so worrying that kids are being taught that changing sex is possible. I also think this is why lesbians are being vilified as transphobic- as a way of forcing partners for trans women to avoid the huge problems that trans people face in forming relationships (who cares about trans men- plus ca change).

Dimsumlosesum · 14/12/2018 07:04

I feel very sorry for her.

SnuggyBuggy · 14/12/2018 07:14

It's sad and I think some very vulnerable people are being stitched up big time by being told they can become men or women.

ABitCrapper · 14/12/2018 07:14

Very sad.
But it there is a comment that made me laugh - apparently someone's son works with a lass who used to be male, met a nice chap and had a couple of kids. I wonder if this person believes that you really can change sex and have birth kids as the other sex!

pancaketosser · 14/12/2018 07:17

Brave article.

From this, and posts on other threads this week, it seems to me that a form of 'self-acceptance' (so to speak) plays a part in the treatment for dysphoria. Almost more than any physical transition, which I'm starting to see as more a case of treating the symptoms not the cause, IYSWIM.

A clumsy analogy - you can take painkillers to make you feel better, but just doing that won't address the cause of the pain, and may make it harder to treat the cause.

SnuggyBuggy · 14/12/2018 07:19

You do get some strange biology in Daily Mail comments. There is also always that relative who was born prematurely at 16 weeks gestation in 1930 who was fine.

Obviously most adults know transwomen can't give birth but it's the kids with their dodgy PSHE classes and false information who could well end up believing this.

KittiesInsane · 14/12/2018 07:32

I do feel sorry for her.
But.
The examples given - joining a women’s gym where women change naked, joining the all-female WI, dating unwitting straight men who wanted a female partner - all seem to be self-defeating attempts at social contact. Why not join a clothes-on, mixed drama group, a gardening club, a walking group, a reading society, rather than the few things restricted to the opposite sex?

I know it’s the reporter’s slant on this, but it does look like this lonely, bullied boy thought that there was a different, better world of girls and women there to be joined, if only he could qualify for it - rather than a world of things to do with likeminded people of either sex.

Gileswithachainsaw · 14/12/2018 07:34

I think Leanne is really brave to speak out like this.

Such a sad story.

Funny even in the comments people are trying to deny this even happened and everything is all hunky dory with every trans person they know.

So horrific is a negative truth even thise telling their stories are called Liars.

nauticant · 14/12/2018 07:56

There is also always that relative who was born prematurely at 16 weeks gestation in 1930 who was fine.

Hahaha, that's great. Now why would a woman in 1930 claim a conception date a few months later than the actual one?

Original poster
TimeLady · 14/12/2018 07:59

Good observation, KittiesInsane

And it's not too late for Leanne to take that advice now. Volunteering is another good way of meeting people and raising self esteem.

OP posts:
frazzled1 · 14/12/2018 08:10

What struck me was Leanne's description of a twilight world, not wanting her old life yet not finding acceptance amongst women either. Very sad.

Mumsnut · 14/12/2018 08:12

Leanne is probably happier than if she hadn't transitioned ; but transitioning wasn't a magic bullet that resolved all her issues.

feministfairy · 14/12/2018 08:14

Important to hear Leanne's views and interesting to read the comments that are (with a few exceptions) thoughtful, supportive and mainly gender critical.

Very sad to hear about her personal journey and I suspect that it is a far more common one than the aggressive shouters would ever allow to be acknowledged. I also read on another thread where Leanne herself was posting that TRAs tried to intervene and get the DM to censor her story?

BeUpStanding · 14/12/2018 08:58

Leanne, the transsexual in the article, has joined the end of this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3445694-Letter-in-the-Times-Plea-To-The-Trans-Lobby-from-group-of-transsexuals?pg=1&order=

Apparently the Mail came under much pressure from TRAs not to publish the interview.

Original poster
TimeLady · 14/12/2018 09:14

Thank you for that link, Beupstanding. That adds an interesting perspective. Best wishes to you, Leanne. These last few days must have been tough

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 14/12/2018 09:17

That is a really sad article and I feel for them. That is horrific the way people shunned them. As others have said it sounds as if self acceptance helps a bit - I can't help wondering what their life would have been like if they hadn't had surgery, and instead had counselling to help them accept themselves, and help them being comfortable being a feminine man.

Very brave of them to tell their story in this this way.

SlowlyShrinking · 14/12/2018 09:34

Leanne is probably happier than if she hadn't transitioned ; but transitioning wasn't a magic bullet that resolved all her issues

I can’t help thinking that if Leanne had had the chance to live life as a gay man, she might not now be so isolated and might even be married or have a partner? The problem is that straight men like women, and gay men on the whole like men who identify as men, so the pool of potential partners for Leanne is already narrowed, and that’s before we start adding in things like personality and appearance.
Also it must be hard to go through life feeling you are pretending to be something you’re not, and that society in general wouldn’t accept you if they knew the real you.
I feel so sorry for her, she seems like a nice and intelligent person and probably would have a lot to offer to society/the world of work/children/partners, but she’s been sold a lie and therefore not been able to properly and fully live her life.

TheFaerieQueene · 14/12/2018 09:40

I’m not a reader of the DM usually, but that was a reasonable article. I feel a lot of compassion for for Leanne. I really hope she can find happiness.

happydappy2 · 14/12/2018 10:17

Very brave of Leanne to tell her story so honestly, I hope she can start to socialise more, and make some friends.
As for TRAs trying to stop the interview being published....the cats well out of the bag-we know the ideology is flawed that’s why we want it out of our schools and away from children.

WeRiseUp · 14/12/2018 10:24

I wonder if Leanne may have an undiagnosed ASC - being bright, but not bring able to actualise this ability - there's some social naivety going on too isn't there? Leanne didn't have SRS until mid thirties - it's rare to be a virgin at that age.

I really hope that people like Leanne can access proper support - not just with dysphoria, but lifeskills and making more fruitful choices - as someone said up thread joining a women only gym or the WI seems a bit doomed. Socialising should not be about seeking validation - there is give and take and shared interests.

2rebecca · 14/12/2018 10:43

Sad. As a feminine gay man Leanne would probably have had a better life. Young people considering gender transition don't think enough about future sexual partners. If they are on puberty blockers to eliminate the sexual desires of puberty they probably don't feel this is important. I think everyone should have to go through puberty before making life changing decisions like this and even then as Leanne shows they can make the wrong decision.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 14/12/2018 10:53

I agree, Rebecca, it really highlights how important it is to stop this appalling trend of transing children. Kudos to Leanne for speaking up like this. It's a dreadfully sad story and I hope she gets some comfort from the thought that it may help some confused young person.

Chardeemacdennis1 · 14/12/2018 10:57

I had minor plastic surgery. Before hand I had to have my mental health checked and my reason for wanting the surgery. They needed to explained that the change was purely cosmetic and would not make any difference to my life or create any profound changes. It can only boost confidence its not a magic wand to fix all issues.

SRS seems to be sold as a magic wand to fix your life though. Don't fit in, unhappy with your life, upbringing, sexuality, lack of friends - get srs and all will be right.

As with all cosmetic surgery we should be making clear to SRS patients that the changes are cosmetic nothing more. It won't change your life and won't make you happy, only you can make yourself happy from within.

Oblomov18 · 14/12/2018 11:14

This is what I've been saying for ages. Unfortunately even being trans is a sad and lonely situation because the person is uncomfortable in their own skin and wants something that they can't actually have.

They aren't being sold a dream. This is the reality.
It's just 'trendy to be trans' as the article says.
Such a shame.

BettyDuMonde · 14/12/2018 11:53

Fuck those line dancers!

Best wishes Leanne.
Thanks for trying to show gender questioning young people the bigger picture.

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