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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Paris Lees Interview in the Sunday Times

108 replies

Igneococcus · 09/12/2018 08:21

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vogue-columnist-paris-lees-im-the-acceptable-face-of-trans-i-dont-frighten-the-horses-9hfbk0nx5?shareToken=e82b1c4ee7e8f2d5a794438688f8d626

I wish the author would have challenged Lees a bit more. It's all a bit fluffy.
No comments. so readers can't ask the questions the interviewer didn't ask.

OP posts:
WrathofbubonicKlop · 09/12/2018 08:57

Youthful unhappiness could have been avoided if at age 11 if she had been given puberty blockers

17 trans in a school isn't shocking with maybe a couple of thousand kids

I've become a professional trans person on the circuit
You can make money from it

Anybody shocked?
Not me.

donquixotedelamancha · 09/12/2018 09:15

I wish the author would have challenged Lees a bit more.

I thought it was very balanced. PL wouldn't do an interview which was too challenging and, given how verbose she is, putting it in a Q and A format would be difficult anyway.

OVAgroundWOMBlingfree · 09/12/2018 09:33

Imagine arriving late to a professional meeting (after all you can make money from this now) and admitting it was because you “were having a bad hair day”. FFS.
Women eh? All fluffy hair and fluffy brains underneath.

Needmoresleep · 09/12/2018 09:34

Thanks for sharing.

As ever it seems to be about extrapolating individual experience, without logic or wider evidence.

So Paris has a father attached to strict gender roles, so Paris thinks that homones should be available more easily to young children. Paris seems, like others, to have had a rough start in life, but that suggests there could be more than an inborn sense of gender dysmorphia.

The article usefully bats back the statistics robustly, quoting an NHS source.

And effectively shines a light on Paris' disinterest in potential child protection concerns: "It’s not up for debate, they are at risk of self-harm and all the issues that go along with that: depression, drug addiction, homelessness." Yeah...but. The argument for single sex spaces is not individuals but about overall risk.

#no debate may be useful, but gets us nowehere when protecting children or vulnerable people.

Vogues new direction is interesting. They seem to be aiming for a younger cooler look with Paris, Lily etc. I assume they are looking for a switch from the trad print readers to younger online ones. And assume that their research indicates that this is what advertisers want. (Leave Tatler to make the money from schools guides etc for the monied aristos - Vogue goes for the young, flash and rich.) But if they are aiming for a younger, more influencible group, they perhaps owe some duty of care.

WrathofbubonicKlop · 09/12/2018 09:34

I rather like Paris, she has had a tough upbringing, she's doing very well now.
Paris is surprised how well life has turned out, considering her difficult childhood.

Minors who end up selling sex at 14 are extremely vulnerable.

OrchidInTheSun · 09/12/2018 10:03

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OldCrone · 09/12/2018 10:06

"...study after study after study round the world shows these kids, who aren’t supported by their families, are highly vulnerable,” Lees says.

I suspect that any child who is not supported by their family is highly vulnerable.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 09/12/2018 10:08

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MadamBatty · 09/12/2018 10:13

I couldn’t see the point of the article? I wanted to be a woman & now I have a career as a professional trans woman.

B a narcissist, it’s a good career option?

happydappy2 · 09/12/2018 10:16

Paris can scream ME Me Me, all they like. They need to understand that trans people don’t live in a bubble, they are part of society, and the women of that society need single sex spaces for their safety and dignity. I do not want males changing next to me when I’m undressing and will always fight to preserve single sex spaces where needed.

OldCrone · 09/12/2018 10:17

Much of this youthful unhappiness could have been avoided, she says, if at around the age of 11 she had been given puberty-blocking hormones, something that trans organisations encourage doctors to prescribe for children with gender dysphoria in order to “buy them more time”.

Paris knew Paris was trans aged 11. Therefore any 11-year-old who says they're trans must also know that for sure and can't possibly be going through a phase, or have been influenced by friends or YouTube.

You can't know which ones will desist, Paris, that's why we shouldn't medicate children with powerful drugs.

It doesn't "buy time", it just fucks up their bones and brains and bodies. And the evidence appears to show that it makes sure they don't desist. Just what the trans lobby wants, isn't it, Paris?

CarolDanvers · 09/12/2018 10:18

Paris is a ninny who was second one out from Celebrity Island then fibbed about long they had stayed.

Biologifemini · 09/12/2018 10:21

Paris is a reasonable person now. But she has a Cheryl Tweeedy sized skeleton in her closet in by carrying out a violent assault which got her prison time.
Could a female have caused this much damage to someone so quickly? Very unlikely, and there’s the rub. Females and males are distinguishable by their biology. Males are on average bigger and more violent.
This doesn’t change Paris experience or dysphoria but it makes things difficult for the rest of us to understand.
I also don’t understand why if they want to be referred to as female they have chosen a classically male name.

rightreckoner · 09/12/2018 10:24

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OldCrone · 09/12/2018 10:25

How many times is Paris's appearance mentioned in that article? It's almost like Paris thinks being a woman is all about looks.

NotTerfNorCis · 09/12/2018 10:26

Paris was an effeminate child who was mercilessly bullied by family and classmates. Paris learned at a very young age that only girls were allowed to be 'girly'. By 11, Paris was convinced Paris must therefore be a girl.

CanIJustBeMe · 09/12/2018 10:30

"Sadly, if you want to go about your daily business without being harassed, things are going to be easier if you’re able to conform to societal standards of what a woman should look like.”

I found this part quite poignant. Should she (or anyone else) have to subscribe to this in order to avoid harassment from people (I'm thinking men in the street shouting things etc here like they do to most women).

OldCrone · 09/12/2018 10:32

I wonder if Paris has stopped for a moment to consider why so many women who are very tolerant of gender nonconformity are against medicating children who are gender nonconforming, or who might be gay. It's not about "whipping up hatred", Paris.

LikeDust · 09/12/2018 10:38

My spidey senses go off with the ''worst thing is the stigma" argument since that is also apparently the worst thing about being sexually abused for money, according pro-sex industry campaigners.

I bet Lees calls feminists SWERFs.

13thWarriorWitch · 09/12/2018 10:43

The "acceptable face of trans" ? Says who?
Not acceptable to me I'm afraid. Sorry P

donquixotedelamancha · 09/12/2018 10:57

I bet Lees calls feminists SWERFs.

I have not heard her say that. Given her childhood, I would be inclined to listen to her views on sex work. I doubt she has illusions that it's all lovely.

I also don’t understand why if they want to be referred to as female they have chosen a classically male name.

I suppose it is possible she hasn't read the Iliad. I believe there is some celebrity or other with that name as well.

PetraDelphiki · 09/12/2018 11:02

I want to pick up on paris’s Comment that we are talking about bathrooms...just off to tube the address for letters to the editor!

PetraDelphiki · 09/12/2018 11:02

*find not tube! Honestly autocorrect is a pita

OrchidInTheSun · 09/12/2018 11:03

Nope, Lees thinks that it's a valid choice of work and anyone who doesn't think that isn't listening to sex workers: twitter.com/parislees/status/983661044420829186?s=21

NothingOnTellyAgain · 09/12/2018 11:04

Oh lol at description she is tall

No shit Sherlock!