Paris Lees Interview in the Sunday Times

[Igneococcus]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vogue-columnist-paris-lees-im-the-acceptable-face-of-trans-i-dont-frighten-the-horses-9hfbk0nx5?shareToken=e82b1c4ee7e8f2d5a794438688f8d626

I wish the author would have challenged Lees a bit more. It's all a bit fluffy.
No comments. so readers can't ask the questions the interviewer didn't ask.

Women have a lot in common with each other and very little, apart from also being homo sapiens, with males.

Not too much of a fan of this way of thinking either, unless by 'in common', you mean biology. However, if it's things like personality, interests, propensity towards certain activities, then the only reason men and women differ is due to socialisation and to claim that we are innately different in terms of how we act feeds into patriarchy. I can't speak for all women and nor can I claim to necessarily have things in common with all women, other than the experience of being a female living under patriarchy. Obviously PL doesn't have that experience. I would agree with a pp who says that PL is a transsexual though, not like e.g. Jess Bradley. PL is annoying, sure, but at least has made a significant effort to appear female.

Well it's biology, yes. Women are discriminated against because of our biology. Because we bleed, because we can (or cannot) give birth, because we are put in the role of careers, because female jobs are always seen as less important than male jobs.

Paris passing has nothing to do with that.

We share both female biology and socialisation, plus the shared oppression and ongoing experiences of sexism. These are huge things to have in common.

We share both female biology and socialisation, plus the shared oppression and ongoing experiences of sexism. These are huge things to have in common.

Yes I agree, and I don't agree male people have the same experience.

I like Paris. I think she is excellent as a trans advocate and I have to admire her determination to 'fit' as a woman, which appears to work on a superficial level.

But I also feel sad for her knowing that however hard she tries she will never properly belong due to biology, socialization and some weird innate womanly thing that includes body language, tea and biscuits, self depreciating humour and a mindset that centres people and relationships.

Watch the Celebrity Island that Paris did, she didn't fit in with the women (or the men)

It was the same for India Willoughby on CBB, she didn't get the way that women interact and I've seen the same thing in personal friendships with Transwomen. I can respect pronouns, natter away, thank the person for a 'nice girly chat' but it is never like interacting with a biological woman. The topics of conversation, the vulnerable ego, the walking on eggshells, my level of comfort/discomfort and the general lack of understanding or empathy. In my opinion no amount of hormones, surgery, voice training or styling can ever give a transwoman that je ne sais quoi that biological women naturally have.

@Victoriapestis the hair thing pissed me right off too

Just amazing isn't she.....

Everything that involves an empirical claim is up for debate.

@LikeDust one of those women don't have penises tiny detail isn't it...

@Ereshkigal but but Paris knows everything dammit!!

Watch the Celebrity Island that Paris did, she didn't fit in with the women

It was the same for India Willoughby on CBB, she didn't get the way that women interact

Tbf, neither do I

Agree hipsterfun! Given some of the people on these shows, not fitting in is a badge of honour.
I only said the passing thing because someone brought up how it’s immediately obvious that PL is not female. I just pointed out that she is one of the few that imo actually does pass. But of course that doesn’t make her a woman. She is deeply annoying but if you read her comments about loving street harassment in light of being sexually abused as a child prostitute, maybe that goes some way towards explaining it. And who knows- maybe being trans is some sort of coping mechanism. All I know is that children shouldn’t be selling their bodies to grown men and PL does deserve sympathy for that no matter what her views.

Thingy
Yes, when Paris and India appeared on reality TV and we all saw how superficial they were.
Their behaviour and appearance is still carefully managed by them, and the people around them.
Paris tends to dress down in interviews,

PL's back story demonstrates male pattern behaviour.
Men don't change into women.
The wolves are dressed as sheep.

They may well be making a lot of money promoting this, but they don't give a shit about the long term consequences of the transborg.

"Paris tends to dress down in interviews,"
This gives the impression it's not all about the hair and clothes.
But for them, it is.

I didn't see PL on Celebrity Island (Is there a way of watching it now?) but the few clips I watched showed me that PL has spent so many hours posing in the mirror and working really hard at 'passing'. It seems exhausting putting such an act, knowing that certain ways of sitting make the shoulders look smaller, etc.

In the footage of Lees saying goodbye to everyone it is awkward and obvious in the body language and relative sizes and shapes of people's frames that they were all very aware PL is a transsexual. It also seems like the elephant in the room because they all appear to find it difficult to 'unsee the male' in the way they relate to Lees.

The first time I saw PL, was the now infamous Wright Stuff show.
Right from the start, I noticed something odd about the look.

Imagine arriving late to a professional meeting and admitting it was because you “were having a bad hair day”. FFS.
Women eh? All fluffy hair and fluffy brains underneath.

Interesting how trans women are automatically condemned for things that women do. I can think of plenty of female celebs who have been late for meetings/events because of clothes, hair etc issues. But, of course, as soon as it's a trans person...

I can think of plenty of female celebs who have been late for meetings/events because of clothes, hair etc issues

Can you?
I can't, not outside social media.

I wish the author would have challenged Lees a bit more. It's all a bit fluffy.

Apologies as I haven't read the thread so it may have been referenced already.
Paris Lees was interviewed by Nick Robinson as part of his Radio 4 'Political Thinking', he did challenge, politely.
Lees was very unhappy.
Lees is used to controlling interviews and does this very well.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05xp3z2

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3270344-Paris-Lees-interviewed-by-Nick-Robinson-on-Radio-4-now-on

Yes, Lees is reluctant to do interviews that aren't totally fawning because Lees refuses to 'argue my existence'. Of course we all know it's because Lees wouldn't have a leg to stand on if Lees were actually challenged.

The Nick Robinson interview was pretty tame and Lees kicked off massively about it.

It was the same for India Willoughby on CBB, she didn't get the way that women interact and I've seen the same thing in personal friendships with Transwomen.

This segment is very telling:

Both India Willoughby and Paris Lees have said that they do not have a GRC.