Letter in the Times - Plea To The Trans Lobby from group of transsexuals

[PimmsnLemonade]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/times-letters-reasons-for-private-schools-oxbridge-success-sqjb6kkgt

As this is discussion and MN are keen that it is civilised, might you consider reading and listening to more of the posts please?

I read all the posts and whilst I dont always agree I certain take them on board.

Right now the whole argument is going nowhere and I am greatly disturbed by these apparent 100 fold increase in transgenderism that is growing by the day. The avalanche has started and Im not sure how it can be stopped. Arguments aside the fact is my identity has been stolen and I am expected just to step back and accept that. Im being told "yes I know you have struggled with mental health issues and gender dysphoria and been hospitalised for it but Im the same as you because I get turned on wearing a bra". Unlike many of those I meet today who called themselves trans, I dont actually WANT to be this way. I hate being like this. I get ridiculed and abused every single day and threatened with physical and sexual violence. I am how I am because its been the only way I have found that allows me to function. Ive had dozens of counselling sessions, psychotherapy, CBT, scheme therapy, psycho-sexual counselling etc.. I accept Im not a woman and never will be but in societies eyes I'm not a man either. Personally I am deeply hurt when I am swept up in the generalisations that say "if youre not a woman youre a man and men and violent abusive misogynists" - that couldnt be further from the truth.

The only solution in my view has to be a continued if not increased medicalisation of transsexualism and work to abolish gender stereotyping. When a girl likes football she is told that "girls dont play football" and in the currently climate is being led down the road of transgenderism. Equally when a boy wants to wear make up he is told that "only girls wear make up".

In an ideal world we are all free to behave socially whatever way we want. I can wear make up without abuse. I can wear a dress without abuse. I can go out with my boyfriend without abuse. I am me, not whats between my legs and I should be free to present how I feel comfortable without gender stereotyping.

Trust me, Lang, that comment wasn't directed at you!

I have a good mate who was born and raised in Germany. She has no desire to invade Poland, or to commit genocide. Like most German children she was brought up to be fully aware of her country's 20th Century history and has as a result come to terms with being part of a group of people whose members historically committed atrocities. If the Germans as a nation can manage that I really don't see why males who're uncomfortable with many aspects of masculinity can't come to terms with that fact that feeling that discomfort doesn't make them somehow not-male, nor do they have any right to deal with that discomfort by trying to force the rest of the population to pretend that they're something other than male.

Interesting that Debbie Hayton, who is routinely fawned over, has a fairly similar 'I'm entitled to...' viewpoint to Kay, but is a lot more careful with their language to avoid upsetting you lot.

Oh, don't think many of us haven't noticed. So Kay was a conflict prone personality on trans forums too then?

If you steal something, and then someone else later steals it from you, is that theft-ception?

I read all the posts and whilst I dont always agree I certain take them on board.

Right now the whole argument is going nowhere and I am greatly disturbed by these apparent 100 fold increase in transgenderism that is growing by the day. The avalanche has started and Im not sure how it can be stopped. Arguments aside the fact is my identity has been stolen and I am expected just to step back and accept that

By way of analogy I sometimes read other boards on Mumsnet about parenting.
I can't have children as a consequence of the total hysterectomy neccessary to save my life following a gyny cancer diagnosis.

Sometimes I feel naturally feel angry or upset about this and sometimes I might feel strongly I have something relevent to say on a particular thread.

Aside from civility though, having empathy & respect for others who are not connected with my own circumstances along with self-awareness means that I do not impose my own (valid) feelings in places where frankly its innapropriate. It also wouldn't have helped me come to a healthy place in my own recovery.

"can't come to terms with that fact that feeling that discomfort doesn't make them somehow not-male,"

If it was only "discomfort" then there wouldnt be an issue. Discomfort I can deal with.

Without any common frame of reference I could never explain to you what it feels and how it affects you. Taking modern bullshit out you only have to look to genuine suicide statistics amongst the true, medicalised transsexual people. Thats not "discomfort".

Transtrenders have trivialised GD. In suits them to do so because then they can claim to have it too.

having empathy & respect for others who are not connected with my own circumstances along with self-awareness means that I do not impose my own (valid) feelings in places where frankly its innapropriate.

I stand with women over the current arguments and I do beleive a lot of weight is added when TS people are also seen to be objecting to modern rhetoric. I am not trying to enforce views on anyway - I want to stop the runaway train that is destroying womens rights and trivilialising my own identity.

The only thing I disagree on is asking for the GRA to be repealed and moving things backwards.

Interesting that Debbie Hayton, who is routinely fawned over, has a fairly similar 'I'm entitled to...' viewpoint to Kay, but is a lot more careful with their language to avoid upsetting you lot.

Based on previous contributions on the board I'm inclined to view this as deliberately stirring.

'you lot' seems rather uncivil.

If what you mean is not "I can't be a man because I'm not like this" then it would probably be helpful not to argue that people shouldn't consider you a man because you're not like that.

Ultimately the frame of reference thing doesn't really matter because the reality is that people can't change sex. The "debate" is about the extent to which society should be forced to pretend that it doesn't know that in order to make trans people happier. It's almost always women and girls who're being asked to make concessions to that fundamental untruth that harm us and put us in danger and remove our right to privacy and bodily autonomy.

It must take a hell of an ego to look at that and think "well sure but what about what I need?", when the formula is you versus half the population.

*Arguments aside the fact is my identity has been stolen and I am expected just to step back and accept that

Can you not see the irony in that?*

I see that womens rights are very much being stolen but not by me. Frankly Im a person with mental health issues just trying to survive the best way they can at a time where society has turned GD in a fetish.

I stand with women over the current arguments and I do beleive a lot of weight is added when TS people are also seen to be objecting to modern rhetoric. I am not trying to enforce views on anyway - I want to stop the runaway train that is destroying womens rights and trivilialising my own identity.

You're not standing with women, you are insisting that they validate and protect 'your own identity' that's clear from the posts on this thread you've ignored and the content of the posts you've made.

Interesting that Debbie Hayton, who is routinely fawned over, has a fairly similar 'I'm entitled to...' viewpoint to Kay, but is a lot more careful with their language to avoid upsetting you lot.

If you paid attention rather than just heading in to be rude every now and again, you would know that Debbie regularly gets a hard time and is challenged on here. Doesn't flounce off in high dudgeon, however.

True that, Rowan, and I shouldn't be engaging.

Frankly Im a person with mental health issues just trying to survive the best way they can at a time where society has turned GD in a fetish.

Empathy, respect for others and self-awareness are key.

There has always been fetish associated with gender dysphoria.

Although there are some exceptions I'm pretty sure fetish is not the motivation for the majority of young female transitioners at all. Again, sex is always relevant.

the reality is that people can't change sex. The "debate" is about the extent to which society should be forced to pretend that it doesn't know that in order to make trans people happier.

Accepted I cant change sex and never will be able to. TWAW is bollocks of the highest magnitude.

Whilst I would agree that for the majority of transgender people it is about simply making them happier, there is still the core group for whom the 2004 GRA was for - a group of people with severe and debilitating issues.

It must take a hell of an ego to look at that and think "well sure but what about what I need?", when the formula is you versus half the population.

By that argument you could argue that any minority group should get nothing. The majority should never be inconvenienced and the minority should suffer in silence. Fine, you disagree with where things are at but its certainly not ego.

There has always been fetish associated with gender dysphoria.

To be very clear, I absolutely don't mean in every individual.

you would know that Debbie regularly gets a hard time and is challenged on here. Doesn't flounce off in high dudgeon, however.

And yet never quite get around to saying what they think should happen do they? In fact, they quite often disappear for a long period when challenged on what the solution should be and whether they should be using female facilities.

No answer to my question about adding in an extra layer to psychological gatekeeping, I see, cant.

If you think that "inconvenienced" is a fair description of what's being asked of women then either you haven't been listening at all or you're having a hard time grasping the concept that women are people.

By that argument you could argue that any minority group should get nothing. The majority should never be inconvenienced and the minority should suffer in silence. Fine, you disagree with where things are at but its certainly not ego.

That you don't recognise the influence of ego, doesn't mean that it isn't relevent.

As I said, self-awareness is important.

There has always been fetish associated with gender dysphoria.

Not always.

There is a massive difference between those with a diagnosis of "Gender Identity Disorder from Childhood" (which is pre puberty) and "Late Onset Gender Dysphoria" by the modern criteria.

Ive been transsexual since primary school - well before I even knew what sex was.

As I qualified, I was not saying in every individual.

No answer to my question about adding in an extra layer to psychological gatekeeping, I see, cant.

That is unnecessary. I didnt see your comment and I cant be expected to comment to everything.

I have made it quite clear in many previous posts that I support an INCREASE in medicalisation of transsexualism and transition only ever as a last resort after multi disciplinary therapeutic intervention.