so, what would you do if someone referred to you as a ciswoman (and your job didn't depend on it)?

[lucydo]

this is a genuine WWYD. I belong to a church. I'm very happy there, and enjoy working in the social justice group. But the leader is very nice, very liberal (as far as they can be while working with a traditional CofE group of people). I just know at some point they'll start talking about women as ciswomen.
I would object, and leave the group if my objection isn't acted on. But would that mean that I was being an arse, or just lucky (unlike those in paid employment where this crops up) to be able to do it?

Depending on who I was talking to, I might go for the scientist approach: don't be daft those are terms nicked from chemistry (explain what is means there...)...maybe segue into biology...

At work, given that we really do talk about cis and trans isomers I can't imagine anyone cis-ing me. (Autocorrect rather sweetly kept trying to turn my 'cis' into 'chic' but I'm not a chic woman either)

Agree with others to appropriate the language. You have to say "identify as" not "identify with" though, to use the term properly.

I’d say what I do and have said “I don’t like the prefix cis and I’d prefer it wasn’t used when referring to me”.

If trans-women are women then why call women cis-women and not women? This is a riddle of Boswellian proportions. I hate the cis word so much!

Cis assumes that you believe women are a group of males and females who share a stereotype, as opposed to adult human females, one half of our sexually dimorphic species. It's offensive, untrue and not needed.

I think I would probably go with either the 'not a descriptor I identify with' if they were very wokey, or refer to him as a cis man. Then ask why it has been used. If it is because you are not trans, you can say that therefore you are a woman, no cis needed.

You can short cut the questioning by saying 'cis? That means someone that identifies with the gender assigned to their sex? Oh, no, I definitely don't do that, I'm not cis'

In practise, I work mainly with men, so this hasn't come up (men only seem to care about this stuff when they can use it to have a go at women).

I would point out that I'm a woman and I don't agree with the way that female gender stereotypes continue to disadvantage women as well as the fact that I don't conform to all those said gender constructs and therefore I'm not cis and believe that cis is extremely assumptive, restrictive and therefore damaging word.

church you say?

go all pentecostal and call him bro/brother?

misunderstand and say you are not his sister?

Spot on chatty bright, not confrontational and yet can be said with a steely don't mess with me look in the eyes.

I‘d tell them that I do not believe in the Religion of gender so my sex can‘t be cis or trans to anything.
But out of interest I’d like to know, why they didn‘t classify me as trans given I hate cooking and pink, work in STEM and love rock climbing.

In true MN style I'd tilt my head and say 'Did you mean to be so rude?'

I'd probably just tell them to fuck off, I don't go in for that nonsense, but if they were people I cared about and didn't want to offend then I guess I'd explain that it's an offensive term as it implies I identify with gender nonsense.

I hate this word more than the terf word. I would simply go with 'woman is enough, thank you' and if they iinsisted I would then go on to say gender is a social construct I don't accept, so please don't use that term for me, thank you.

Where does it say 'cis' in the Bible?

Cis is offensive because it implies acceptance of gender.

I can support somebody’s freedom to express their religion (assuming no others are harmed) without having to accept the framework of their religious beliefs and this is the same.

Why is he offensively assuming how you identify? I'm guessing he didn't ask how you prefer to be addressed. Tell him - and that goes for any wokebros in a work environment too. Ask why they don't bother to respect you. Fuck this 'cis' shite. It's just another way to call women non-men, meaning non-person. It's long past time these men realised we are actually their equals.

Prior to the Rachel McKinnon fiasco back in October, I had never been aware of any of these transgender issues, pronouns, deadnaming etc.
I had never heard of "cis" and have never experienced anyone in real life using the term.
However, from the articles and Youtube videos, I cannot remember hearing any men being referred to as "cis men", so it would seem that it is "real" women who are being singled out for this prefix.
If I was ever called a cis man by anyone, then I think I would engage them in a very long and time wasting conversation, involving biology and social etiquette.

I think I'd say that I'm not cis or cisgender because I don't subscribe to genderist beliefs. I'm a woman because I'm female but I don't identify with gendered stereotypes.

Strictly speaking, because I comply with some feminine stereotypes (I wear a bra, at least when I'm out, and often paint my nails) but I also comply with some male ones (extremely logical, try hard not to cry, good map reader) so I guess I'm gender fluid or non-binary...

The whole thing is ridiculous. I don't have to have a gender identity. It's not compulsory.

This has never happened to me.....but have been practicing my horrified expression, and saying Nooo, don't you realise how offensive that is to women? Woman is a reality and does not include male bodied people trying to identify into our protected characteristics etc etc.

I would say something like, "I am gender non-conforming and so is everyone else I know. I don't think the term 'cis' is very useful." That puts it onto them to explain why you really, really do have a womanly gender identity.

It happened to me in staff training! So in front of a room full of people I told him that this was really offensive and not to use it. Cue long, stunned silence. Air of confusion. That took all my guts, so I didn’t manage to continue and explain why. Next time though!!

Therefore being "not trans" is a real thing and cis is a sensible word to use for "not trans"

Of course it's a real thing, but I strongly object to the idea that the vast majority of people should be defined by what they are not. I'm a woman and a transwoman is a transwoman. No need for cis at all. After all MNHQ recognises it in the FWR talk guidelines as a term which many find offensive and and which therefore shouldn't be routinely used in debate on here.

Tell them that I prefer "woman", as I am not part of some sort of odd subcategory of woman. Wait to see how they react. If they argue start referring to them as a "cis man" and banging on about trans men being men too at every opportunity until they realize what an idiot they're being and amend their language.

The difference is not between being trans or not trans, it is between believing in gender and not believing in gender.

If you believe you don't have a gender or are gender fluid but that most other people have a binary gender you call yourself non-binary.

Gender Critical people don't believe they have a gender, but also don't believe gender usefully defines anyone else. It's possible to accept that other people believe they have a gender (trans people clearly exist) and find it offensive to be defined by gender i.e. called 'cis'.