Nic Williams on Woman's Hour (Tuesday) talking about sport and gender identity

[OrchidInTheSun]

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1069731404488077318?s=21

Nic Williams will be debating with Beth Jones, who is an academic at Nottingham Trent www.ntu.ac.uk/staff-profiles/social-sciences/dr-beth-jones

Here's the others Nic probably had on her list:

That's good whatsthecomingoverthehill

Giles and LIttlebrowndog - agree there's def been signs of panic in Jane G's voice when the gender critical argument is wiping the floor. In all of them but especially today with Dr Nic.

I think she's gender crit and anxious to be balanced (and I think she's doing a good job) but it does seem like there's an element of bbc policing in all this - like there were very strict t&cs about women's hour covering this area

Yes, andy. You only have to go on Strava and check out your local king and queen of the mountain. It's the same all over the world.

Are you talking to people within the sport? There's a big bait and switch going on for a few years now where TRAs will say there's no problem in sport because national federations set the rules and we're all playing within the rules... The national federations say "we're bringing X sport into line with International Olympic Committee guidelines, everything's fine" and BOOM, the IOC guidelines were written by a... male person who identifies as something different from their birth sex. Nothing to see here.

I think the insistence that sport should be mixed sex, will have listeners looking at their male family members and friends and thinking “mixed sex sports! Away to fuck!” Peak peak peak! Thank you Beth. 😁

So women are coasting?

Gosh yes. The transformation of performance by young women in the recent Winter Olympics (snowboarding, the ski events) is blatant evidence of the coasting - what with them using manoeuvres that women weren't even doing 3 years ago.

And don't get me started on the performance of those layabout women who recently set canoeing records (i.e., for anyone, not just the women) in the Devizes-Westminster event.

Nonetheless, as Dr Fond of Beetles says:
Male puberty and testosterone. Testosterone, the androgen driving male physical development, is a wonderful hormone. It is responsible for advantageous skeletal features that develop during male puberty, such as increased height, increased bone size and density, longer limbs, wider hand spans and a narrower pelvis, all of which make a 100m sprint or a slam dunk far easier. It also directs hugely increased muscle building capacity, allowing higher absolute masses to be achieved in shorter training times, mass which, by the way, contains a higher proportion of fast twitch fibres (responsible for explosive power) than observed in female muscles. To support this superior physicality, males have greater lung capacity, a higher VO2 max (the amount of oxygen consumed during high intensity exercise), a bigger heart with faster stroke rate and higher levels of haemoglobin, and thus can oxygenate their muscles more efficiently.
...
Males are better (at sports, at least). Males are faster. Males are stronger. The performance gap between male and female athletes is utterly astounding; it’s not a “gap”, it’s the Grand Canyon. Without sex-segregated sporting categories, the most wonderful 10.49s that female athletics has ever seen would be a footnote in history. We owe it to the female sports stars of today and to the girls who aspire to be tomorrow’s sporting heroes to fight for their right to take home gold.

fondofbeetles.wordpress.com/2018/10/01/harder-better-faster-stronger-why-we-must-protect-female-sports/

The future, where men beat up women and make the women work harder. Where there are no sex segregated spaces.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=S7JtsyNCnpk

I think threads like this should be over on the main Chat board too.
All women everywhere should be up in arms about this.

Dauntless is the future TRAs want.

I swear this is going to take several million of us standing in parliament square bellowing 'we are not fucking CIS' for several hours at the HoC.

The worst part of all this is realising that the establishment, BBC included, really is this fucking stupid.

You only have to compare men’s world/olympic records (of all kinds of sport) with women’s world/olympic records to see that male bodied sportspeople have an undeniable advantage over female bodied sportspeople.

(Although I did once see a TRA try to deny this using shotput as an example - there isn’t that much between men and women in terms of distance... true... but that’s only because women use a smaller, lighter put 🤷‍♀️)

Serena Williams is thought to theoretically rank somewhere around 400th in the men’s game... she clearly just needs to train a bit harder and not let her lady-brain think so negatively

Cock.
Off.

Just found an old CNN article about Heidi/Andreas Krieger - shot put athlete who was pumped full of 'vitamins' (steroids) in the 1980s.

Basically she 'turned' into a man because of what she was given. I don't think testosterone is the only thing to consider.

edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/Europe/08/11/sexchange.athlete/index.html

And yes. For fuck's sake. High level male athletes that are really women????

This is, consistently, the level at which transactivists argue. Fantasy.

Fantasy Land, indeed!

There is a sinister thing here, in terms of the current IOC guidelines that require testosterone to be lower. The counter argument is that by going through puberty, testosterone would have done its job already. (And, I believe, they have found that steroids have an effect long after they have stopped being taken.)

Enter your trans child, whose puberty was stopped at 11. This will be their next argument.

A lot of money in sport
Scholarship s , funding from sports bodies for training
Judy Murray set up miss hits in tennis
For girls and coaching delivered by women and girls

For girls for a reason Jones for a reason
Because research has shown that more girls take par t in sport when it is single sex

Has this picture been shared here yet?

The 2018 Asian Women’s Handball Championship was yesterday won by Austrialia 29 - 24. Only Iran had an ALL woman team.

Fantasy Land, indeed!

Yes, they are in a sim and divergent.

"Transgender ‘female’ MMA fighter gives female opponent concussion, broken eye socket"

“I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because [he] was born a man or not, because I’m not a doctor,” she stated. “I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life, and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right. ”
www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/transgender-female-boxer-gives-female-opponent-concussion-breaks-her-eye-so

Mixed sex handball , that will make the women work harder.

If I think about my current sport, fixed seat coastal rowing, then the advantages men have are clear. Bigger hands, longer arms & legs, better skeletal mechanics, not really any boobs to get in the way. If women had to compete against men for every seat in a boat, we would be down in the C & D Crews before we got a look in.
And for small clubs with only a couple of competition boats, that would put us out of racing altogether.

Yeah, I do acknowledge the pressure on Jane Garvey to achieve balance must be immense.

incall, absolutely, it is the respect aspect in martial arts that makes a difference. There could be a case for having some "open" competitions with the rule modifications that would allow it to be safe. Weight class alone might not do it though, look at boxing, the arm length/reach is on average different between men and women. And unfortunately, where trans comes into this is that it seems many trans people seek the validation of entering the specifically women's competition, they're not the ones asking for mixed sex or open categories.

Although Nicola was correct to agree with Beth that the research is not there specifically regarding trans people, it is a pity that the statistics on all the differences between men and women (on average) could not be given more time. This IS totally established hard science.

So, according to Beth PhD, who Repeated that women may be able to win against males if they try harder. Ok then. I wonder if somebody would like to tweet the likes of Paula Radcliffe, or Serena Williams, or Jessica Ennis Hill, and ask them if they tried hard enough? Or maybe they just trained in between doing their hair and cooking the tea and weren’t really trying at all?

Well done Dr Nic, you like facts. Unfortunately the BBC do not like facts, but then at least 99% of the population aren’t stupid, so while facts are good and helpful, and highly preferable, common sense is the defining factor where sport is concerned. Only somebody who has had all the common sense brainwashed out of them won’t get it.

Who the f is that Beth btw? She sounds about 20. I’d have liked JG to ask her if she plays competitive sport, and whether she could, or has ever beaten the males in her discipline.

Honestly, the stupid, it hurts.