Criminal gender GP Helen Webberley fined £12k

[QuietContraryMary]

Criminal record, struck off, £12k fine, £2k fine for her company, £11.3k costs.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-46400184

Not sure it will stop her criminal activity seems to be a relatively mild deterrent . Future convictions could hopefully lead to prison ?

that's just what I thought OldCrone

it segued directly from whoop whoop gender incongruence is no longer classified as a mental illness! to gender dysphoria is life threatening

I mean we already know the suicide stats of massively over inflated, but I presume that's what they're referring to?

Yes it usually is.

It's emotional blackmail on a mass scale: "do what we want or we'll kill ourselves"

I mean we already know the suicide stats

Leaving aside the veracity or otherwise of these stats, when there is a high incidence of suicide amongst a group of people, isn't the reaction amongst wider society usually a desire to find the cause?

So according to the Webberleys (and others), suicide attempts and ideation is not due to gender dysphoria itself, since that is 'not a mental illness'.

Next question is whether there is a high rate of depression and other mental health issues within the transgender population. If so, surely the first step is to treat those mental health conditions.

But it's clear that there are two things which cannot logically co-exist. Those are:

• People with gender dysphoria do not have a mental illness
• If people don't get help with their gender dysphoria they'll kill themselves.

I’m confused - you (a medical doctor) can be a gender specialist with an hour’s training?

Or, by being a Gastro-Enterologist.

And the GMC / DoH are ok with this?

I’ve no quibble if a medic want’s to change track but what is (if any) the recognised pathway / training / qualifications for becoming a gender ‘specialist’.

And the GMC / DoH are ok with this?

I don't think they are. Hence all the conditions being placed on the Webberleys and the investigations and prosecutions by HIW.

OldCrone

Do patients or their families realise this (lack of training / specialism)?

Just thinking - if I was suffering from breast cancer, would I be happy to be referred to a dentist? Well, the dentist is medically trained and has a ‘general’ idea of what’s going on and medical terminology...

Or, I need my house electrics looking at, so i’ll call a plasterer.

When my mum was in hospital for a minor op - the nurse (ward sister with 30yrs experience) wasn’t allowed to explain her notes. My GP couldn’t prescribe Roaccutane for my acne, so I had to refer to a dermatologist.

But fuck it, a (generalist) GP can prescribe life altering drugs to (kids) patients without the referral to a consultant / specialist. Where else in medicine would they be allowed to do this?

Ida they are not really allowed to do it anymore. HW has been suspended by the GMC and is now allowed to practice medicine in the UK and MW conditions attached to how he can practice.

They are preying on vulnerable children and making money from it. It is unethical in so many ways.

Reported higher suicidal risk in transgender people.

Many autistic young people, identifying as transgender.

Actual documented high rates of suicide in autistic people:

"Persons with ASD present risk factors inherent to their diagnosis (deficit in expression of feelings and thoughts), along with risk factors pertaining to the general population (abuse, depression, anxiety, etc.)."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24713024

It's almost as if medical practitioners such as Helen are only seeing the patients asking for transition in front of her as transgender, and not seeking to find out if there is an underlying cause which is going untreated so that the suicide risk remains.

The star of R0’s video made one especially for us! How kind!

It’s charmingly entitled ‘F**k Mumsnet Feminists’

that was really really poor. Self obsession is an affliction.

The mother of the 12 year old at the centre of all this has made a statement.

gendergp.co.uk/without-dr-helen-webberley-my-son-wouldnt-be-here-a-letter-from-the-12-year-olds-mum/

Its very easily to demonise Dr Webberley for her actions here but there are two sides to every story.

"They are preying on vulnerable children and making money from it. It is unethical in so many ways."

No they are not "preying on vulnerable children"

Read the statement from the mother of the 12 year old at the centre of this gendergp.co.uk/without-dr-helen-webberley-my-son-wouldnt-be-here-a-letter-from-the-12-year-olds-mum/

Just because people dont understand gender dysphoria doesnt mean people arent being debilatated and committing suicide over its effect.

This is emotional blackmail. The desire of a parent to circumvent entirely reasonable and sensible treatment restrictions is no grounds at all for deciding that HW was acting reasonably.

The parent has no idea what would have happened if they hadn't circumvented the rules. There are also many many flaws with the arguments put forward in that article, but this probably isn't the thread to discuss them.

Just because people dont understand gender dysphoria doesnt mean people arent being debilatated and committing suicide over its effect.

It's a shame TRA's are trying to remove mental health support in this area isn't it.
And those like Rosa Freedman who have been trying for years to keep it in place are being attacked for it.

There are also many many flaws with the arguments put forward in that article, but this probably isn't the thread to discuss them.

I agree on both points. That's one of the things that makes this issue so difficult to discuss. We're talking about real people, with real issues, and in this case the person at the centre of the discussion is a child.

I hope that child grows up to be a happy, healthy adult, but I cannot agree that Helen Webberley was in the right in what she did. She broke the law and went against medical guidelines. Laws and guidelines are in place to protect us all. If every well-meaning doctor was allowed to do whatever they felt was right, regardless of legal considerations, where would we end up?

The star of R0’s video made one especially for us! How kind!

It’s charmingly entitled ‘Fk Mumsnet Feminists’
m.youtube.com/watch?v=SOtFUB3k7lo&list=PLDJgt-41mVIQGkrZ3KMxRMzZZRarS-ruS&index=2&t=0s

That was hilarious. Thanks for the link. I particularly enjoyed the Fayelike sighs, but had to stop listening after a while because the fake accent was doing my head in. Was that a northerner channelling a breathy American youtube starlet?

If anyone with a Sherlockian talent for analysing accents would care to listen to it and solve the mystery I would be most grateful.

This person had nothing to do cos the internet was down. That's right. So HAD to get dressed up. An answer might be to read a book? Or get rid of that wallpaper.

He sounds like a Yorkshire lad who wishes he was a Californian high school girl

I’m pretty cross at the misuse of the term ‘life threatening’ here.

My daughter has a life threatening autoimmune condition. Untreated it leads to death via multi organ failure.

There are 49,000 kids (0-18) in the U.K. who have ‘life limiting’ or ‘life threatening’ conditions. ‘Gender incongruence’ isn’t one of them.

Words have meaning, especially in medical and disability terms.

The Drs Webberley MUST know this, so they must have set out to deliberately mislead with this statement.

www.togetherforshortlives.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/ProRes-How-Many-Children-Young-People-Affected-By-A-Life-Limiting-or-Life-Threatening-Condition-Factsheet.pdf

There are 49,000 kids (0-18) in the U.K. who have ‘life limiting’ or ‘life threatening’ conditions. ‘Gender incongruence’ isn’t one of them.

Just because gender dysphoria isnt a physical issue necessarily doesnt mean it should be dismissed so easily.

You cant just disregard something because it isnt life threatening.

I’m not disregarding gender dysphoria, I am simply pointing out that it is not a life-threatening condition and describing it as such is manipulative.

I know, Cantget. I remind myself quite often that mental health problems are as limiting and hard to live with as physical health problems.

I can also hugely sympathise with those who feel that gender dysphoria is trivialised by treating it as just 'all kids do that' or 'being a bit nonconforming' -- it reminds me of those who say, 'Yes, my kid's picky' when you are describing autistic refusal to eat anything, or 'I'm a bit OCD too' when you mention that your child can't walk down the street without fear of poisoning.

But if we aren't supposed to view gender dysphoria as a mental health condition, then I'm very much at sea.

Gender dysphoria, if dismissed and ignored, is life-threatening across all age groups, and yet patients can wait up to four years for a first appointment.

I just don't understand this wait up to 4 years business. I know there may be elements of postcode lottery and of course it will vary, but my young adult child was able to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria within about 9 months from first seeing the local GP. Then another month later was signed off to start testosterone treatment. They couldn't diagnose and medicate her fast enough.

The petition also says: Many trans patients are told that their care will be withdrawn if they seek interim private options while they wait for NHS services. No other branch of medicine would operate in this way.

Just not true. I had a bad back and the NHS physio service refused to treat me because, while waiting for the appointment, things had got so desperate I'd gone to see an osteopath.

Just for a bit of perspective, studies suggest:

approximately 0.005 percent to 0.014 percent are diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Among individuals who are assigned female gender at birth, approximately 0.002 percent to 0.003 percent are diagnosed with gender dysphoria

If 0.3 to 0.5% of the UK population is transgender then you're looking at something like one in 50 transgender people having gender dysphoria. (Yes, I know there will be those who are undiagnosed but the figures are startling.)

But if we aren't supposed to view gender dysphoria as a mental health condition, then I'm very much at sea.

Thats my huge issue now.

As far as I am concerned Gender Dysphoria / Gender Identity Disorder are very real mental health issues that require extensive support. In some cases it can be resolved with therapy, others may require transition. Ive heard of cases of Bipolar Disorder and of Childhood Abuse where an adult later mistakenly identifies as transgender.

What it should not be is demedicalised for anyone to attach the label to themselves then society is accused of being transphobic for objecting.

Being trans requires gender dysphoria. Simple as that. No alternative lifestyles or sexual fetishes. The people who should be supported in transition are those who have been clinically assessed and diagnosed and who need to do so for the sake of their mental health and future wellbeing.