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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julia HB Talk Radio this morning on transwomen in prisons

123 replies

2rebecca · 30/11/2018 08:54

She was talking about this just now on my way to work. The discussion started just after 8.30. A lot of opposition to people with penises in female prisons. It's a good job I was at traffic lights when she threatened to throw someone out of her studio for talking about "cis" women at the end of the debate. I gave her a round of applause for stating that there are transwomen and women and that transactivists don't get to change the language applied to women just because they want to change gender. Men and women are still men and women.

OP posts:
RedDogsBeg · 30/11/2018 13:44

Today feels like a good day what with the Linda Bellos and Venice Allan court case result and now JHB telling Steve Allen where to shove his 'cis' crap.

Datun I found it amusing watching the changes in his face during that exchange:

SA Smug Lecturing Face: Here let me mansplain and tell you that women can be violent against other women in prison and I'll just use this made up term to define woman for you one that puts women in a sub class....

SA Confused Face: Um hang on a minute, let me just mansplain again what that made up term means and how I am going to use it to put women in a sub class..

SA Even More Confused Face now Tinged with Shock: A woman is saying No to being re defined and reclassified, um, that's not supposed to happen....

SA Shocked and Patronising Face: I know, I'll try another redefinition to make her understand that she is a sub class of woman because I say so and she really must comply with my choice of language to describe her....

SA Really Shocked and Really Confused Face: What? What's going on she's really serious, she really means no, what, what, that can't be right, she's not accepting me choosing what to define her as, what, what's this, this can't be happening, she's not going to agree.....this isn't how it's meant to be....what am I going to do now, this word no from a woman just isn't computing......

As you say, a man who can't hear the word NO from a woman and accept that women, and only women, have the right to define themselves and the language they use to describe themselves is a man who shouldn't be allowed within a million miles of any woman.

FermatsTheorem · 30/11/2018 13:46

I see the mash report clip is now on the twitter feed.

Funny to think that when I first saw it I mistakenly thought Steve was acting the part of a bemused middle class male who couldn't work out what the fuss was about. I now realise he wasn't acting!

hackmum · 30/11/2018 13:53

Have just watched the clip on Twitter. Brilliant. It's so bloody good to see a woman standing her ground on this.

Richard Garside was excellent too.

Waterparc · 30/11/2018 13:55

bump

PositivelyPERF · 30/11/2018 13:59

I can’t clap hands so I was madly clapping my leg with my right hand, like an over excited seal, while listening to JH. Well done that WOMAN! The Twitter comments are fantastic and I’m wondering how many are going to be banned for ‘transphobia’.

PositivelyPERF · 30/11/2018 14:01

IstanbulConstan Brilliant 😂

arranbubonicplague · 30/11/2018 14:08

Richard Garside was excellent too.

I know that it overlaps his day job but Richard Garside is stepping up repeatedly and displaying an admirable willingness to present informed opinions and evidence-based debate. He's doing a very fine job of it. Thank you, Richard Garside!

Binglebong · 30/11/2018 14:40

Wow, suddenly I rate the mash report as I never have before.

nails2018 · 30/11/2018 14:55

Just watched it - outstanding!

Threewheeler1 · 30/11/2018 14:55

That was very satisfying to watch.
Julia put him back in his box nicely.
Good to hear Richard Garside too.
More of this is needed please.

I'd never heard of that Steve bloke before, don't think I've missed much.

arranbubonicplague · 30/11/2018 15:02

Good written account of the cis/trans exchange here:

talkradio.co.uk/news/julia-hartley-brewer-im-not-cis-woman-there-are-only-women-or-trans-women-18113029022#1v1TzgjsrhO6Zhhq.99

Macareaux · 30/11/2018 15:07

Oh my god this was fucking excellent! On so many levels.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 30/11/2018 15:07

Just watched it

Julia was great

But that other ladies face was a picture...she was thinking

If i just sit still and remain quiet hopefully no one will notice im here

ScipioAfricanus · 30/11/2018 15:20

I ask think in this instance Julia is right from a linguistic point of view. The opposite of ‘trans’ in Latin isn’t really ‘cis’ - trans is a prefix or a preposition used to express going across (transferro, from which transfer; transpono, from which transpose, etc). If you want the opposite of it, or the ‘non-trans’ of it, most of the time that is simply omitting that prefix it or preposition. I carry, but not across = ferro, not cisferro. I place, but I don’t place across = pono. ‘Cis’ is used very very rarely to express the same side as something (such as this side of the alps, rather than across them - Transapine and Cisalpine Gaul). It is in no way analogous to the commonly used prefix and preposition ‘trans’.

I know this isn’t really about Latin - but the use of cod grammar feels close to the use of cod science in this nonsensical debate. Cis is to Latin as clownfish is to sexual reproduction in nature.

ScipioAfricanus · 30/11/2018 15:22

Typos galore to undercut my post! Transfero, fero is correct here, as well as other typos in the English.

Alienspaceship · 30/11/2018 15:24

Fantastic Julia!

LikeDust · 30/11/2018 15:25

I wonder how many people had to watch it more than once. Smile

RedDogsBeg · 30/11/2018 15:31

I am enjoying JHB's take down of SA as much as I enjoyed Posie Parker trouncing the good doctor on Sky News.

This is why TRA's won't enter into debates where they will have to answer questions and address points in real time, they can't, they haven't the skill or intellectual rigour to do so and they flail about and get irate when someone disagrees or says "No", just like their useful lackeys have done.

SA was urging people to tune in on his twitter before the broadcast not said a dicky bird since the broadcast though.

BiologyMatters · 30/11/2018 15:35

Love it. Look how much it took to make him shut up. Does anyone have any links to the full segment please?

Cuntysnark · 30/11/2018 15:40

Beautiful and spectacular. Watching that was like balm to my soul.

arranbubonicplague · 30/11/2018 15:41

For the full segment: talkradio.co.uk/radio/listen-again/1543559400#

About 8 mins into the 08:30-09:00 segment

MnerXX · 30/11/2018 16:03

Absolutely brilliant. Julia was awesome and inspiring. Take no shit from these numpties!

hackmum · 30/11/2018 16:40

the use of cod grammar feels close to the use of cod science in this nonsensical debate.

Yes. The whole thing is completely disingenuous, of course. SA's comment that JHB should "blame the Romans" is ludicrous - it wasn't the Romans who came up with this nonsense about calling women "cis". It's simply a stupid invented term designed to make it seem as if "cis" and "trans" are just subsets of the category "women" in the same way that "black women" or "heterosexual women" might be subsets. He was trying to argue that female prisoners should be protected from all kinds of women, "trans" and "cis", trying to deflect attention from the fact that what we're angry about is not about a subset of women, but about men. We don't want MEN in women's prisons.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 30/11/2018 16:47

Well done Julia!

The whole point of 'cis' is to relegate women into a subset so that men can be rationalised as actual women.

The word is No.

Or in the words of Julia, No, no, no, it's STILL no you bellend, NO FFS, how many more times, and NO OR YOU'RE OUT.

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