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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

In defence of deadnaming

606 replies

welshgendercrit · 28/11/2018 14:43

For ‘deadnaming’ is just a Newspeak word designed to demonise the telling of historical truths. Not satisfied with seeking to control contemporary discussion and attitudes, now trans activists and their allies (all institutions, in essence) want to control the past itself. History. No way. The past happened, it was true, and we should not allow that to be erased and forgotten just to make some people feel better about themselves.

Yet again spiked (which I never used to read) has written a good, hardhitting, sensible article on transactivism.

www.spiked-online.com/2018/10/11/in-defence-of-deadnaming/

OP posts:
Bowlofbabelfish · 26/12/2018 19:40

nope

It does though. Women are adult human females. All the women, regardless of colour or religion or class or any other social distinction. All women.

Men are not women. Humans cannot change sex. It’s very important to be able to use language that means something, in law , science and in daily life.

And also in public records and history. We cannot make deadnaming illegal. It’s a predators dream.

Mariotta · 26/12/2018 20:09

How does one prevent Fox's brave new ultra libertarian and not progressive at all world from defaulting to extant power structures?

Oh. That's right. One doesn't. That's the point, as it always is with male sexual rights.

FloralBunting · 26/12/2018 20:26

Yes, I rather ruefully note that the bad people in fox's worldview are the women who say no and assert firmly exclusive sexual boundaries to men and 'women with penises'.

The women who say they are fine with penises, even if they never actually want to play with one get a pass, because their boundary is sufficiently grey.

Mariotta · 26/12/2018 20:28

Well, if the world is run on identity uber alles, who has the structural power to elevate their identities over others? Oh. Not women. Especially not the working class ones. Colour me shocked.

Ereshkigal · 26/12/2018 20:31

They further expose this ideology with every single word.

ChewyLouie · 26/12/2018 20:41

The more Fox posts his ridiculous ‘contributions’ the clearer it becomes why people who approve of deadnaming are on the wrong side of history.

feministfairy · 26/12/2018 21:02

Here's another example of a child murderer who name changed (presumably with the consent of the incompetent Parole Board) and predictably went on to commit arson and then attempted to murder a woman with dementia.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/child-killer-stephen-chafer-almost-decapitated-dementia-sufferer-after-release-on-licence-pzhkgfr52?shareToken=e313b1d523e7ba3427fe5be57d54cdf7

Presumably if he had kept his own name neighbours may have been able to find out his history and protect themselves and their children??

Bubonicpanic · 26/12/2018 21:07

This reminds me of back in the summer when a bunch of people rocked up to say "thou shalt not be in a room with Posie Parker because she once criticised the hijab". The reason no one could be in a room with someone criticising the hijab was it meant a person who likes wearing a hijab could not go there, therefore, by association, we were all oppressing the hijab liker by being willing to enter a room with Posie Parker. Really?

I turned this around and asked what this meant in practice for this "privilege" view of white women feminism that we are all denounced with. By insisting I can't be in a room with someone that does not defer to the symbols and ideology you believe in are you not simply oppressing me back in return.

No answer, no reply, nothing. There isn't one is there?

I put myself on a D&I training course this year, where they make everyone do this privilege exercise. Everyone gasps and is in awe of the message (what message?), but if you say so "what now, what does this mean?" there is no answer. Do I have to unlearn and unknow everything I know so as to not offend those that know other ideas?

No answer. No explanation. This type of diversity and inclusion training is an absolute dead end. It is an ill thought out dogma. And it bears little relationship to the real world we operate in, it adds nothing. And this is the feminism that is so easily captured by this ludicrous male equals female burble burble burble.

It's soppy and meaningless. And damaging and timewasting.

Until someone gives me the follow on training session when they actually tell me how standing back and letting your oppression take over my life benefits anyone, then I will be watching from the side-lines amused at the pointless waste of time this "cul de sac" feminism is.

Bubonicpanic · 26/12/2018 21:08

Sorry for the wall of text. I find three days off for Xmas a great time to think!

feministfairy · 26/12/2018 21:34

That's some good thinking Bubonicpanic
It's amazing isn't it how we (and the rest of society) are all being repeatedly silenced and forced to accept the unacceptable. Just look at the predator thread, the doxed thread and this one for evidence of coercive control in all its manifestations.

Every time I get stressed and want to step away, I just look at the actions of the predators in plain sight - whether they are porn advocating, flashing, threatening women, grooming / promoting medicating children or bullying women out of public / online space and I am determined to keep fighting back.

Bubonicpanic · 26/12/2018 22:57

Feministfairy.

I have actually experienced the ineptitude of the police and school management in this.

My DS and his friends caught themselves up in the Savile years of calling out online paedophiles.

One of my Ds's sons got so scared that my DS was at risk he went to the his head of year.

The Head of year had all of the children arrested. To protect a paedophile.

I found myself in a police station with a group of really dim and aggressive police officers all arresting three children to protect a paedophile. All they cared about was the fact that this man may hand over cash to children. Blackmail is a much more prestigious crime than paedophilia to the police, much more kudos in preventing this.. The police would rather protect a man looking for sex with children from a financial loss than stop a man abusing children. They told me this and demonstrated this clearly. as did the school.

It actually happened. The police do not want to believe that men do this. They prefer to blame children, and if you are a parent saying "what the fuck are you doing", you become the enemy. It takes serious amounts of effort to overcome the instinct men have to protect men. Huge amounts.

feministfairy · 26/12/2018 23:22

That's a shocking story Bubonic. But then having seen how abused girls in Rotherham, Oxford and a litany of other places were blamed for many years by the police, social services etc for the abuse they suffered I can believe it. I hope that in the end no charges were laid?

As we have seen repeatedly, paedophiles like Jimmy Savile and Cyril Smith were protected by those in high places - and that doesn't seem to have changed at all.

Bubonicpanic · 27/12/2018 00:17

Yes, I finally managed to get the school to admit that they didn't bother to follow child protection procedures because they are "not set in stone" . The Winchester LEA paid a barrister to say that. To wriggle out of their failure. Despite the schoolboard telling me they had to do this because they had no choice. They all lied, they had no idea that they were supposed to do anything other than having children arrested to protect a paedophile apparantly. Fuck that.

The Deputy Head faked documents to cover his arse.

It's extraordinary when you are a parent of a child and have this happen to you. The men involved are absolutely stunned beyond belief when you fight back. In my son's case it was a classic bully male, he tried his best to shout me down, so I just stood up and reflected his weasel words back at him.

FFS

These men are pathetic. What the fuck are your scared of?

Bubonicpanic · 27/12/2018 00:23

Ranting now but for fucks sake, stop being scared of mediocrities.

Have the courage of your convections.

Get over your inhibitions.

Stand up.

Bubonicpanic · 27/12/2018 00:24

Convictions. Smile

andyoldlabour · 27/12/2018 00:56

@Bowlofbabelfish

"And also in public records and history. We cannot make deadnaming illegal. It’s a predators dream."

This every time.
My wife "peak transed" today when she heard about Martina's spat with McKinnon on Twittter, when listening to RT - you wouldn't hear about it on the BBC..

SophoclesTheFox · 27/12/2018 07:14

Not a good time to have Fox as part of your username on this board, is it Grin

Moving on from all the “a vegetarian can eat bacon if she likes, and still call herself a vegetarian” silliness, I’m in total agreement that “deadnaming” can never be a crime. Too open to abuse, and too much of a wedge for compelled speech, and a refuge for bad actors.

NonExistentFox · 27/12/2018 07:50

Yes, I rather ruefully note that the bad people in fox's worldview are the women who say no and assert firmly exclusive sexual boundaries to men and 'women with penises'.

The women who say they are fine with penises, even if they never actually want to play with one get a pass, because their boundary is sufficiently grey.

Or you could go back to page 5 and see what I actually said.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 27/12/2018 08:33

Deadnaming. The topic of this thread is deadnaming.

FlyingOink · 27/12/2018 08:51

Bubonicpanic bloody good for you. A horrendous story, but I'm glad you persisted.

Datun · 27/12/2018 09:14

Or you could go back to page 5 and see what I actually said.

Depending on how you customise the look, there are no pages. Eg, I have 1000 posts per page, so only one page.

Ereshkigal · 27/12/2018 09:16

Indeed Datun. I can't see "page 5" either. I'm sure you can quote your post, Fox? Or make the point again?

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 27/12/2018 10:04

Or stick to the topic, which is deadnaming?

Ereshkigal · 27/12/2018 11:01

Good point.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/12/2018 11:21

I went back to page 5

Then i got bored and forgot what i was supposed to be looking for

However, it did have a lot of posts regarding dead naming

One poster said that mispronouncing a name on purpose made someone a dick...not that they deserved a prison sentence

Personally, i am not unhappy with using pronouns out of politeness. I have zero issue with using the name they like, wouldnt dream of calling someone called nicola nick just to make a point

And if someone did those things i dont think they should be charged with any sort of crime