Women's Hour today, Michelle Moore and Layla Moran, on safeguarding

[MrsSnippyPants]

twitter.com/BBCWomansHour/status/1067347907911782400

Sorry that should read.

Layla unaware, that autistic children being pulled in to the trans ideology.

DD2 came home from school one day saying it was the BEST day of her life. The teacher who is head of her year group had accidentally emailed the minutes of a staff meeting to all the children rather than all the teachers. Nothing unprofessional but a lot of personal details such as parent problems and illness, not to mention the poor behaviour standards of DD's class.
The girls spent all their lunch hour glued to their phones and discussing the revelations.
DD1 exclaimed "Oh that's why poor Mrs X looked so stressed when I saw her, she said she was having the worst day of her life".
Shit happens. And one way or another the news of a child's new trans identity will get back to the parents so it must surely be better for the School to act professionally and contact the parents for a discussion because it won't look good when the accidental email or misgendering on a letter or whatever happens and the parents hit the roof.

Quite apart from all the other issues.

Great to hear an actual discussion, and thank you Woman's Hour for tackling this head on. And I give credit to Layla for saying that she hadn't heard about transitioning being suggested as a "cure" for autism, and saying that if that is true, it is abhorrent. But she is definitely a true believer of the gendered, immutable soul.

Now we need a discussion about the girls and young women who are undiagnosed with autism, don't know why it is they can't fit in with their peers, and latch on to being transgender as the reason why. Multiple whammy: no sense of identity; terrible mental health problems; sterilization and surgical alteration; still no sense of identity.....

Other thread

(No idea which will go forward!)

Woman's Hour today Tuesday 27 November safeguarding trans kids www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3435634-Womans-Hour-today-Tuesday-27-November-safeguarding-trans-kids

Michele Moore did a great job and managed to raise some really important issues. It's not just that a child confides in a teacher that they might be questioning their gender - there have been cases of schools starting to refer to child as the opposite sex and parents only finding out at parents evening - now that is totally wrong.

Layla spluttered incredulously when Michelle pointed out that 30pc of trans-presenting kids being autistic is the Tavistock's OWN figure. Then thrashed around suggesting that it might be because autistic children are more likely to be upfront about being trans.

Why is this a new phenomenon in autistic children, Layla? Autistic children were not being 'upfront about being trans' five or ten years ago. They are the canary in the social contagion coalmine. Vulnerable children. It is disgraceful that adults are enabling this.

Just catching the women speaking about black appropriation - going to listen back - fantastic exchange there.

And I think a win that they followed it with a piece on white women presenting as racially ambiguous.

Explicit links not made but there for all to infer.

I have had to turn it off as I have work to do.

Before I did the talk changed to how (thin, young) white women are appropriating looks from black culture and how this is fraud.

Do you think these issues were deliberately put on one after another?

I know someone whose son had just done sex education at school. He was convinced he had to find a girl friend and have sex before he was 18. I've no idea why he thought that or what was said in class to give that impression. He has asperger's and is extremely bright.

Golden Pombear - there have been some really interesting articles on these programmes, between the trans stuff.

I would have liked to hear Michelle say something like 'It is acceptable for a school to keep a confidence if they see no harm coming to a child, but they have a duty of care in the same way they would if they knew a child was self harming. Furthermore no social transitioning should happen at school without the parents being involved' (or similar).

A good debate, but still not as tangible as I would like. I like real examples to hang things off.

Credit to Layla for at least coming on the program and having a discussion, but it showed how far behind the politicians defending self-id are in the debate. She clearly was surprised by the autism figure and tried to make up an explanation for it on the spot that would not ruffle the trans lobby's feathers, rather than deal with the alarmingly high correlation and the possibility that these socially confused kids, often with other conditions that effect their feelings about their own body such as dyspraxia, are perhaps being groomed online. I hope she at least goes away realising that she needs to research this issue some more.

GoldenPomBear I do think that it was done deliberately and that it's a masterstroke. Impossible to challenge from a TRA perspective without admitting that womanface is equally appropriative.

Jane said something about the reality of women's daily lives never being taboo on WH at the start of the programme, too.

Layla is assuming that children all have a very secure and set gendered self identity inside which is just simply true and pre social. All her answers came from that point of view. The gendered soul. But our sense of self develops and changes and is built by our interactions with the outside world. If alot of those interactions are with online gender forums this will influence the sense of self.
Lalyas answer to the autism correlation wasn't very convincing. Alot of listeners who have not heard the stat before will be concerned.
I thought the discussion was good. They all did quite well from their points of view and michel got some really important points out.

Excellent choice of following piece!
Was disappointed that they didn't get into the affect on other children of transitioning children - boys in the girls' changing rooms etc.
Still Michelle was great Layla sounded intellectually lazy and quite patronising too.

Excellent choice of following piece!
And preceding piece, about menopause.

Yet another person who didn't do any research before going on to womans hour.

It's weird isn't it.

I will do "listen again" tomorrow when I don't need to concentrate as much. I could do with hearing the piece about the menopause.

Not that I am concentrating as much as I should be at the moment. Trans seems to be taking over my life. I have data to input!

Layla thinks she can get by because of her confident and posh enunciation; however she has done very little research into any of this.
She wasn't a teacher for very long at all. A career in politics suits far better. She hardly let Michele get a word in. Michele was very patient.

Lots of mock offence from Layla when she was shown to be ignorant of what safeguarding implies and in her lack of real awareness of the autistic connection. She is comfortable riffing off of her expensive education. Clever girl - but not much originality or considered thought on the subject.

Great discussion and good to hear two women talking about this. Layla sadly is dangerous as she speaks with authority (as an ex head of year) while evidencing only a very rudimentary knowledge of safeguarding.

Confidentiality is a nuanced issue in schools but to repeatedly promote the idea that "the drama teacher can take a child's disclosure and keep it a secret" is so dangerous - to both the child and the teacher. When that goes wrong (and I have seen it go catastrophically wrong in a number of schools in terms of serious harm happening to children) several teachers subsequently lost their jobs for failing to refer concerns upwards and (in one case, alert parents). One of these children took their own life and another attempted to - and each time a teacher had failed to share their disclosures.

I should have said Layla is professionally dangerous !

but it showed how far behind the politicians defending self-id are in the debate

This is an important point and one that is increasingly standing out to me.

All our parliamentarians are at least two years behind the actual conversation that is happening. It is very concerning.

MsMCWoodle:

Very well put."Layla intellectually lazy, as well as patronising". Totally her style - after watching her performance in the commons too.

Can I say a "well done" to Michelle for having a polite, respectful, grown-up debate. What, exactly, are the trans lobby so afraid of? Why can't they debate with feminists?