I was one of the transactivists on the channel 4 documentary, I regret what I did — this is why

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

medium.com/@Betsulimo/i-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-i-regret-what-i-did-this-is-why-7e12350ab6d3

Someone who was filmed trying to stop the “we need to talk” session now thinks they were wrong for attempting to shut down debate and realises that they were intimidating women

There have been people like Maajid Nawaz who have followed the radicalism-to-liberalism path but in their case it wasn’t just about rejecting violence as a means to a legitimate end but a fundamental questioning of the ideology that lead them to accepting violence in the first place.

I have some doubts about Esther's sincerity after reading this tweet

twitter.com/elmskid/status/1066690840540659712

Esther Betts @elmskid
Replying to @gwennelsonuk
I think the actions of certain 'terf' speak for themselves, all we've been doing is allowing them to hide behind our even worse bad behaviour

There have been people like Maajid Nawaz who have followed the radicalism-to-liberalism path but in their case it wasn’t just about rejecting violence as a means to a legitimate end but a fundamental questioning of the ideology that lead them to accepting violence in the first place.

True. But a big reason for people to start questioning any ideology is when they notice its internal flaws and contradictions. One obvious internal contradiction of the Islamist ideology, is the clash between the violence-inciting portions of the Quran and the peaceful portions. This comes up a lot in discussions of this subject.

It's that whole issue of the discomfort caused by feeling cognitive dissonance, and struggling with different ways to reconcile dissonant beliefs, before finally admitting that something is wrong and you need to change your thinking.

Sometimes that can be a "road to damascus" sudden wholesale conversion, but more often it can also be a slow process of first one crack appearing, then more and more.

Great post theOtherPamAyres.

I think the actions of certain 'terf' speak for themselves, all we've been doing is allowing them to hide behind our even worse bad behaviour

People don't change over night, critically thinking about what you've been told up until this point starts with questioning and realising something is odd about it.
Someone who has spent years being told another group are an enemy who want their extinction is going to mean their view isn’t changed by one event where they’ve seen violence isn’t helping.

To that we reply: "This isn't about you, funnily enough. It's about women - what we want, what we will challenge and what we will fight for.

Compassion as cover: How transgender allies dodge debate

Since publishing my first essay challenging the ideology of the transgender movement four years ago, I have often found myself in settings where liberal allies of that movement try to divert a difficult discussion by claiming the moral high ground of compassion. With each of these encounters, I become increasingly frustrated at this “compassion-as-cover” dodge that seems designed to give liberals a way to avoid accountability.

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/11/19/compassion-cover-transgender-allies-dodge-debate/

To be honest I don't have much of an answer either, all I can say is that gender dysphoria is a very confusing experience. When I transition it's primarily to deal with that, I don't have a particular idea about what a man or woman is

This is what Betts is saying on Twitter. Why are kids using this to deal with confusion? No particular idea of what a woman is and yet we all have to shut the fuck up and bow down to confused people. I am so sick of confused people spreading their confusion far and wide.

To my mind, this is simply one out of the many. Whether a mind has been changed is irrelevant,. Cos it's one person and not even a high up well known person.
A whole lot more would have to publicly renounce and apologise for previous behaviours before I believed in the change of stance.
When the big guns come out like this maybe I will accept.

Former TRAs and GC feminists need to create and allow some kind of exit strategy for TRAs

The comments - and disucssion - under the article are interesting

It’s not my place to accept or reject an apology that was made to someone else: I was not there. I understand that Esther has personally apologised to Heather, too.

I am struck by how young Esther is. They seem very immature. How easy it must be to manipulate them.
Who is behind this cult? Who suggested balaclavas and smokebombs instead of the simple protest that students would be expected to make?

But floof, the generals can't lead the army if all the soldiers have switched sides (or even just gone home......)

Esther admits that intimidation doesn't work. Esther is now prepared to debate and/or discuss. One assumes that this means Esther will now have to listen to the counter-argument to their beliefs, and maybe start to question them. Esther thinks that anyone who doesn't believe that TWAW/TMAM hates them because that's what they have been told. Esther will soon learn that that's not actually the case. How that will impact on Esther's thinking has yet to be determined, but at least they may begin to realise they have been misled and lied to, and not by GC women. Esther may discuss things with their friends, who may also begin to see that the worst hatred is actually only coming from one side.

Chip chip chip. The foundations begin to crumble as the stones fall out.

He’s like the theif who’s terribly sorry he got caught

Datun you are exactly right:

I couldn't give a toss if it's genuine or not.

*What possible use is it to women to know that they if they determinedly film men dripping in male entitlement and rage, then broadcast it to the nation, and get it talked about across mainstream media, then the men might, just might, fractionally concede that women have a point about including them in their spaces??

And the absolute arrogance to believe that a brief display of 'getting caught contrition' entitles then to anything!*

I think it maybe a new tactic. I’m a suspicious type though.

What’s the saying ‘when someone shows you who they are, believe them’?

This is just a crappy publicity stunt. He is not genuine at all. I hope that women do not fall for this just because we are socialised to be nice.

So my cool head looks at that in the light of a long, long series of manipulative actions and articles and appearances and sees damage limitation and more manipulation.

My pragmatic head looks at it and acknowledges that any step out of entrenched lunacy is a good thing.

So I cautiously welcome self examination of the part of the thugs. But I will not be offering up my neck in response and I will need to see more of this, and see it sustained before I will get the bunting out.

It’s not my place to accept or reject an apology that was made to someone else: I was not there. I understand that Esther has personally apologised to Heather, too.

If it is the case that Esther has apologised in person (and I see that Julie Bindel has also been apologised to directly in the comments) then that looks like a start. Again, though, we'd need to see if it is followed through or if this quickly reverts back to groupthink behaviour. It's hard to be trusting when we know how TRAs have behaved in the past, so shouldn't be automatically expected.

And I think it does matter, actually if it is genuine or not because it is about whether young people can be moved away from this fixed ideological position or not. I don't believe in berating people for eternity for past 'wrongthink' or bad behaviour just because they are trans IF they step away from what is doing harm. People do need an 'out' or it just gets more entrenched.

I feel very ambivalent towards the author of the article.

If the author wishes to reflect and then attempt to make ammends etc then that is always to be encouraged. Such things are best done privately though.

I would hope (but don't wish to know) if they addressed their regrets to Heather B-E at the recent event in Bristol.

With regards an expression of regret / apology, its usual to make this without excuses etc and one would expect it to be the first part of a piece of writing to carry weight.

It seems a shame that the author is gaining so much attention and gratitude.
Given the issues involved, it would seem potentially unhealthy for them.

There are others more deserving of attention.

I'm happy IF this young person is distancing themselves from the cult, because it is a cult. I'm happy if they are suddenly seeing themselves through the eyes of the general public. A rage filled, violent, intimidating thug.

But more dots need to be connected, and quicker. Because what ever apology they are making, no ground is being conceded because of it.

If they think feminist s hate them, they're wrong. If they think that means they get to ignore boundaries and consent, they're also wrong.

cough milk round

That said, come & have a chat, Esther. We love hard questions here. It's one reason I became a feminist - Dittany really put me through my paces and made me think long and hard about what it means to be a woman and why I should centre women in my feminism.

Reading through Esther’s twitter replies this afternoon, and some open conversations on Facebook in the past few weeks, it comes over that Esther’s views and approach to the whole gender debate are rapidly evolving and being robustly challenged from all sides - there’s a post on Twitter in the past few minutes “Since you guys do seem to feel so strongly about it, I will avoid using the term 'terf' in the future. Gendercritical or trans-critical will suffice. Sorry for anyone who felt personally upset by my choice of language” after spending the whole afternoon minimising their use of the term as ‘convenient’ or ‘in jest’ and being repeatedly told no, it’s offensive, stop it.

I understand and wholeheartedly appreciate the healthy skepticism and unwillingness to immediately forgive this person. The behaviour at the Jam Jar - in public - was beyond the pale - violent, abusive, just absolutely vile, disgusting, misogynistic, totalitarian bullshit. You don’t just forgive that. Several people on Twitter have written “don’t just say sorry; do sorry”. Esther has to earn trust and respect, and will have to do a lot to earn that given the starting point.

But I also concurr that there needs to be an exit route for people trying to break free of the cult. Dialogue is the way forward for all of us. At least Esther is talking, and maybe, listening, at least a little, tiny bit. They need to keep going though. There’s a long way to go.

'There are others more deserving of attention.'

Yes - but the positive attention is going to make it easier for others to follow. It's a bit like posting for the lurkers.

I understand and wholeheartedly appreciate the healthy skepticism and unwillingness to immediately forgive this person.

I can forgive. I I do it a lot. I'm not a grudge bearer.

But it doesn't change my stance once iota. Forgiveness does not indicate compliance, in any way whatsoever.

*one

In EB's AMA conversation on twitter, I was...alarmed? disappointed? at this exchange:

fab fab @fluiza
I'd like to know if transition means to walk away from being a man or towards being a woman? Is you desire not to be male and default to female or is your desire to be female?

Esther Betts@elmskid
Interesting question, both I think? It's strange but it's not something I've put a whole lot of thought into, I'm just doing this because it makes me feel a lot more comfortable

(emphasis mine). They haven't thought about what they're doing, which presumably includes drastic medical intervention of one sort or another (she says she's 'medtrans' or something similar on facebook).