I was one of the transactivists on the channel 4 documentary, I regret what I did — this is why

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

medium.com/@Betsulimo/i-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-i-regret-what-i-did-this-is-why-7e12350ab6d3

Someone who was filmed trying to stop the “we need to talk” session now thinks they were wrong for attempting to shut down debate and realises that they were intimidating women

I am certain that Betts is on the spectrum. Why has someone with neuro difficulties been prescribed cross sex hormones?

I am agreeing with Bubonicpanic about everything.

bubonicpanic
To be fair this person transitioned in their early twenties which isn't exactly a "late" transitioner. Is your ideal transitioned person someone in their teens?
They speak about flirting with blokes. They are from what I decipher (from what was not said exactly) male-attracted. Not fully transitioned. On hormones. Not surgically enhanced.

AGPs tend to be mid-life-crisis fathers and have taken full advantage of male socialisation before deciding to inflict their "woman" identity on everyone.
Esther does seem to fall into the category of social misfit, possibly gay, possibly on the spectrum, who found the trans cult to provide a source of "family" and affirmation who gave them that raison d'être that they couldn't find in ordinary rural Scotland where they went to school.

Calling Esther an AGP is off the mark. It's could be more complex in this case.

Yes, I think it is interesting to look at the different groups within the cohort.

This person doesn't seem to be the AGP late transition kind, but very much more the conditioned, seeking a tribe kind.

Either way, as usual, I feel sad for anyone struggling with life. But it doesn't really change anything. I'll be very happy to offer assistance and support in a certain arena, but while this person is pressing for, or being leveraged to press for the disadvantage and oppression of women, no dice.

4thwavenow.com/tag/autogynephilia/
Sexuality
Autogynephilic males sometimes identify as heterosexual (i.e., attracted exclusively to women); sometimes as bisexual (attracted to both men and women), and sometimes as asexual (i.e., attracted to no individuals). Blanchard’s work has shown that autogynephilia can be thought of as a type of male heterosexuality, one that is inwardly directed. Autogynephilia often coexists with outward-directed heterosexuality, and so autogynephilic males usually say they are also attracted to women. Some autogynephilic males enjoy the idea that they are attractive, as women, to other men. They may have sexual fantasies about having sex with men (in the female role); some may even act on these fantasies. This accounts for the bisexual identification among some autogynephilic males. In some others, the intensity of the autogynephilia–which is attraction to an imagined “inner woman”–is so great that there are no erotic feelings left for other people. This accounts for asexual identification. (Asexual autogynephilic males have plenty of sexual fantasies, but these fantasies tend not to involve other people.)
When autogynephilic males receive female hormones as part of their gender transition, they typically experience a noticeable decrease in their sex drive. Some have reported that this has diminished their desire for gender transition as well. Others, however, have reported no change in their desire for transition. (In any case, hormonal therapy is a medical intervention with serious potential side effects, and we do not recommend it as a way to treat gender dysphoria, except in cases in which after very careful consideration, gender transition is pursued.)
Autogynephilia is a paraphilia, meaning an unusual sexual interest nearly exclusively found in males.

General comments, not about Esther:

Same-sex attracted male trans people aren't usually AGP.

Male sexuality is at the root of many, not few, MtF transitions.

I don't think bubonic was mocking but rather making serious points that are uncomfortable.

Could we avoid trying to armchair diagnose someone that we only know through a few articles and videos, please?

I don't think AGPs are exclusively middle aged men at all. I can think of several key younger figures in the TRA movement who I suspect fall into that camp

Qcng

You misread my sentence, I said late transitioners all describe the early onset.

I don't have an "ideal transitioner". What was the point of saying that?

The 4th wave now website stresses the importance of talking to boys abut the fact that their sexuality may be AGP.

Some males become less motivated to pursue gender change when they understand their autogynephilia. However, some do not become less motivated. We know far less about patterns of persistence and desistance of autogynephilic gender dysphoria than we do about childhood onset gender dysphoria.

Instead we are standing by watching boys solidify this into a difficult life, one which demands women submit to their presence. Part of the insistence that we won't do that has to be the insistence they understand what is happening to them and what they are imposing, probably unknowingly. Betts is going to find this out in a very public way. Or deny it aggressively as they have done so far.

bubonicpanic
Why have you just copy-and-paste dumped the very well known definition of autogynephilia. We are all well versed in this definition. Transwomen can also have multiple other reasons for transitioning.
It's just looking antagonistic during times of desperate need for reconciliation.

TBF being on the AS and spending 2 years indoors wanking over porn are not mutually exclusive.

I agree its not a good idea to diagnose over the Internet. I just think Betts comes across in that compelling way some neuro-diverse people do - like Guy Martin - (I had zero interest in motorbikes before I started watching his programmes and now I get why people are interested in them) I just couldn't help but mention it.

Quote from Betts' article in the Guardian

"To deal with all this and then see people given a platform to tell you they think trans women are all male fetishists trying to prey on innocent girls can hurt, a lot."

Perhaps instead of reacting angrily to the hurt, it's sensible and ultimately beneficial to explore and understand.

AGP is not new. The forceful insistence that this sexuality must be self ID'd as a "female" gender identity is what we are dealing with.

The reason for self ID is to remove any gatekeeping in place that filtered AGP.

We are just standing shouting too, if we don't actually explore how young men can come to terms with this intelligently and safely.

As Lang says, it's uncomfortable. But lining up on sides and ignoring the reality is a disservice to young people.

Because there is this binary attitude to AGP, express an interest in men and you're not, in women and you are. Clearly that extract says otherwise and Blanchard has always been clear on this.

I don't think bubonic was mocking but rather making serious points that are uncomfortable

I agree. It is important to have voices among us who are less easily convinced. I've been a right mug before - taken in by charming people who turn out to be unhinged. I strongly believe Betts is acting in good faith and on a journey to a good place and might actually be helpful in providing a way for others to start thinking critically after being brainwashed by TWAW. But I could be totally wrong.

Are you suggesting that trans porn has played no part at all in the life of someone explaining they spent two years not leaving the house during the day?

I think you might be over-reaching a bit here...

I think you might be over-reaching a bit here...

OK, so maybe there was no internet connection available, only postal subscriptions available to knitting weekly.

Flippin heck

OK, so maybe there was no internet connection available, only postal subscriptions available to knitting weekly.

Or maybe porn didn't play a formative role in why this particular person identifies as trans? Or perhaps we can't know one way or another on the basis of the tiny amount of information we have available?

Madly presumptuous of me I know...

Yes, just happening across the need to take hormones to grow a pair of breasts and call your penis a girl dick. That's something you find out in the local hiking group.

Oh wait, do we think they were hiking around indoors for two years.

just happening across the need to take hormones to grow a pair of breasts and call your penis a girl dick. That's something you find out in the local hiking group.

Pretty sure mermaids teaches this stuff in schools now.

Yes and Scotland has gone quicker and further down the rabbit hole than England - what with James Morton and that nonce with the child abuse images.

I didn't hear Betts say 'girl dick' on the video. There was a reference to it being problematic seeing ones self as a woman whilst having a dick. I think Betts said 'with a' dick.

Are you suggesting that trans porn has played no part at all in the life of someone explaining they spent two years not leaving the house during the day?

Would that be your first thought if faced with a female, suffering from self declared mental heath problems and who hadn't left the house for two years?

We are not talking about female behaviour here.

Lots of people with social issues caused by mental health or neurological disabilities shut them selves off and isolate from others.
Both male and female, porn is not something that's involved in this.

I recommend this interview by Benjamin Boyce. Corinna who is a transsexual has a very nuanced, compelling and interesting perspective.

'Trans Rights, Trans Wrongs, Trans Humanity, with Corinna'