I was one of the transactivists on the channel 4 documentary, I regret what I did — this is why

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

medium.com/@Betsulimo/i-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-i-regret-what-i-did-this-is-why-7e12350ab6d3

Someone who was filmed trying to stop the “we need to talk” session now thinks they were wrong for attempting to shut down debate and realises that they were intimidating women

EmotionsDontEngageWithbrain Huge hugs to you. I've been to dinner this evening where we did a little war story telling along the lines of your experience and, whilst I'm a good few years out, you never forget, do you?

I get the "finding their way out" thing, but there's a huge part of me that thinks, really? We need to bend over backwards for people that thought that "woman" was just an identity you could adopt and bugger all those who were cast out by your appropriation? We just need you to shut the fuck up.

I'm not going to be bending over backwards for this person, or any other people who realize that maybe bullying women isn't appropriate, and I resent the attempts to force me to do so. Just because you're a woman doesn't mean you're required to mother every random 20 year old who's been a massive wanker and who's now maybe, if you give them the benefit of doubt, beginning to realize that. This person is 20 not 2. Realizing that if you do obnoxious things then some people won't like you very much is part of the process that produces reasonable adults. Either this person will learn from the feedback they're now getting and grow or they will not - patiently facilitating them every step of the way is not the job of anyone with a vagina.

Women of this age don't get the luxury of being violent & then mea culpaing for sympathy. Imagine if a woman did the same thing to a group of rugby lads at uni in response to a fuck a pig contest (a proper dehumanising event) - how seriously would a) the protest be taken (and why) and b) how seriously they the apology be taken (and why).

Honestly, tazers in girls bounty packs. Redress the power imbalance quickly. Then we can start talking. Unless some actual empathy starts happening pdq

I honestly dont know what to make of this, but you know what comes to mind?

Deeds, not words.

Words are cheap. Anyone can spew blogs, column inches and TV interviews. "Sorry" is just a word. We've seen how they acted. Future acts will reveal sincerity. Or not.

‘From many of the comments here I can hear my parents saying to the teenage me "you're a fool, and don't come running back when it all goes wrong‘

But Esther was never with us in the first place. We’re no more connected to Esther than we are to a young person who goes out joy riding and discovers there’s a baby in a car seat in the back.

Esther and the joy rider messed up. There are some short term consequences to that. Then they go and get a job as a waiter or whatever and stop being a hassle to society.

There’s nothing to run back to. People mess up and then they just go and get on with their lives like everyone else has to.

I think their next move is to vilify the female TRAs to show that it isn't male-pattern violence. I'm sure there's videos of young women spewing hatred at older women. I hope to welcome them back to the fold of real feminism.

Damage limitation exercise.

Good post AngryAttackKittens.

The ‘let her speak’ enrages me every time I think of it!

No woman wishing to be taken seriously would open an article by talking about a bad hair day.

This is it in a nutshell isnt it? Ive spent twenty years working in male dominated industry where ive had to stop myself mentioning anything about hair or makeup for fear of looking girly and weak, pretend not to have kids or never mention them, keep all signs of pmt or having periods quiet as, any time i said anything vaguely strident in a meetimg I'd get "on the blob are we?". Silently having miscarriages in the toilet then walking out into the office and pretending everything was ok. Crying in there when the bullying and sexual harassment got too much.

These peiple havent got a clue have they? They reject the toxic masculinity that I've had to put up with, fair enough, but they fail to recognise they're just exhibiting another form of it. They can go around talking about princesses and unicorns and cute outfits and sparkly nails and pink clothes as grown adults and yet still fully expect to be taken seriously (Pips Bunce) but we can't. Its just a slightly different manifestation of male entitlement. They're no different with their bad hair days.

No woman wishing to be taken seriously would open an article by talking about a bad hair day.

Oh god totally.

Penetrate - feels a very military word.

Might be their early male socialisation talking I guess.

At the same time, no I've never used that word, and will never do so.

I'm totally with kitten over the massive wanker label.

Cult or no cult. Genuine remorse or arse covering.

Entitled wankers who are easily persuaded to bully and threaten women are the hallmark of this activism. It's their nationwide advert and recruitment tool.

Esther is just another prime candidate.

If Esther is genuinely contrite, then great. Perhaps they are shocked at how far they went. But only when it was filmed, in great detail, narrated, and broadcast to the nation.

I'm not losing any sleep over someone who wishes they just been just a little bit threatening and menacing, rather than a lot.

Yeah, I'm not going to offer myself as surrogate mummy to any ofof them. Even if sincere, I'm not his mummy.

Having read the article and the twitter feed, something I don't understand is the 'debate'. What real debate is there to be had?
I have moved from 'live and let live' to TW are not W. One hundred percent. In fact a poster here uses the term 'woman-face' and I totally agree with her/him.
I don't understand what debate there is to be had. As a woman I am not prepared under any circumstances to share my space with a male regardless of how he looks or presents. By debating it assumes some sort of compromise. And I would refuse to engage or compromise with someone who in the guise of regret still writes negatively about those they want to 'debate' with - to 'make' them see their side.
No amount of words will bring me back down that rabbit hole again.
The only debate as far as I'm concerned is one that involves men and how they are going to accept men who like to wear dresses and make-up.

need more space

That's my position too. Feminine-presenting males aren't women and have no business being in female-only spaces.

Just because you're a woman doesn't mean you're required to mother every random 20 year old who's been a massive wanker and who's now maybe, if you give them the benefit of doubt, beginning to realize that. This person is 20 not 2. Realizing that if you do obnoxious things then some people won't like you very much is part of the process that produces reasonable adults. Either this person will learn from the feedback they're now getting and grow or they will not - patiently facilitating them every step of the way is not the job of anyone with a vagina

This. With bells on.

No amount of words will bring me back down that rabbit hole again.
The only debate as far as I'm concerned is one that involves men and how they are going to accept men who like to wear dresses and make-up.

Agree.

Agreed. I care about the young women, no matter how offensive they are. The males can fuck off. They'll be fine.

Most of these TRA foot soldiers are young males: late teens -early twenties, and their female friends. They display the testosterone fuelled behaviour that comes, full flow, at this age. But they are just kids, and we must remind ourselves of this continually, when caught out by their aggressive provocations.

Having said that, I was a mother at 19 years of age, and had a further two children by the age of 27. They have responsibility for their actions and behaviours. This guy was caught out on national TV behaving in a reprehensible way and he knows it. That's something, at least. However, most of his post points to the fact that he still retains his sanctimonious and dismissive attitude. Give them enough rope and they always hang themselves.

When you buy into the 'well look, he's starting to change his mind, we must leave the door open and encourage him' and 'he's just a kid' you're putting yourself in the position of rescuer and someone with superior sense, with a far higher share of autonomy, integrity and therefore awarding yourself the responsibility for this person while excusing them any.

It's patronising towards young adults, the massive majority of whom are functionally adulting and are fine with their integrity/autonomy/ responsibilities. It also walks right into the enabling, co dependent relationship that TRA ideology demands of every stranger in every place. It separates society into the givers/providers and the takers. It excuses taking responsibility for self and actions and it's basically the oh bless excuse.

Seriously, there are people on this thread who may find a good read around co dependency useful food for thought, including how they got it ingrained into them without realising what they expect of themselves compared to what they expect from others. Particularly others with a Y chromosome.

A 20 year old is not a kid.

I agree completely knick

I grt a bit fed up with the 'they are young' but

Lots of young people manage not be violent intimidating threatening arseholes

And to be fair lots of older people seem to remain arseholes

It's not an excuse. But it does explain, in certain ways. I certainly won't, and don't, get involved in on-line slanging with 20 year old boys/young men.

I’m not buying it; within the simpering and offers of free pints they talk about using debate instead of violence - all well and good except they express a desire to ‘humiliate’ GC women through words instead of actions. This person isn’t intereasted in listening and engaging and finding solutions. They still hate women who acknowledge reality.