Advice: Boyfriend Slut Shaming

[k1632225]

Hi everyone, this is my first post so apologies if anything is unclear. I'm coming here as I would really like some advice/material/general thoughts on something that happened a few weeks ago.

A little info about me: I'm 23 and have been in a v happy relationship with my boyfriend for a year now.

While on holiday a few weeks back I was showing my boyfriend pictures from a previous holiday I went on (when we were not together). One picture was just before a friend and I were going on a night out and I was wearing short denim shorts. Immediately he reacted to the picture saying that I looked 'slutty'. I was really taken back by the comment, mainly because throughout our relationship he hasn't once made a misogynist comment or ever spoken about me in a derogatory way. I went on the defense straight away saying that I didn't agree at all with what he had just said. He came back with, well from a guys point of view, compared to girls who aren't wearing shorts that reveal half of their arse, I looked like a slut. I was really hurt, and surprised and the conversation stopped there. I'm not very good at dealing with conflict but knew I wasn't happy with how this had gone so later on, in a more appropriate setting (this initial interchange happened on a tour bus in Iceland) I brought it up again.

I said that I was really hurt that he had called me a slut. He said that he hadn't called me a slut, rather said I looked like one and that was different. He went on to reiterate his view point again about how on a night out, men would see a girl wearing less clothes as easy/more slutty, compared to a girl wearing say jeans.

My main argument point was that I don't care what men think of how I dress. I was wearing those shorts for myself because I thought I looked good. I said that he was feeding a rape culture that women are owned by men, and that everything we do is for the attention of a man. I said that it is incorrect to infer the history of someones sexual past by what they are wearing (i.e. inferring that I've slept with lots of men just because I am wearing short shorts). And lastly said I was in a hot country and therefore wearing shorts were appropriate (not that it should matter what country I am in).

He said he understood and did believe that I wasn't wearing the shorts for other men, but said regardless I was going to attract male attention, and because I moan about 'creepy men' on nights out, questioned why would I wear this type of clothing.

I can't really recall how the conversation ended - I think it was him basically not understanding my points and me feeling hurt and disagreeing with his. I felt annoyed and ignored him for a good hour (lol) but realised we were on holiday so we agreed to postpone this discussion until we returned.

I should note that I'm often not good at verbalising myself in emotive situations and do struggle to say what I want to say unless I have thought about it prior - which is why I'd really appreciate any of your thoughts, so that when I can bring this up I have discussion points I can provide him.

My boyfriend is very open to discussion and wanted to get my point of view and understand why I was so hurt by this comment, he was not aggressive in any way, and I do feel if I can get him to see why his comment/line of thinking is not ok, he would learn from it.

Thanks in advance!!!

His initial reaction has told you everything you need to know sadly

He said he understood and did believe that I wasn't wearing the shorts for other men

How very noble of him.

You never dressed like that to attract unwanted attention, because you're his girlfriend and are so innocent.

It's just all the other girls who look 'slutty' and are dressing to attract males 🙄

He sounds controlling, angry, insecure, misogynist.

And as pP identifies, even if he very nobly concedes that you're not trying to attract other men, he has a madonna / whore complex which is a VERY unnatractive trait in a man.

I'd run a mile.

Well, he’s shown you who he is and what he thinks so get rid. People with that view rarely change.

If you wore those shorts for you and not to attract attention from men, then why did you stop wearing them after you got into a relationship? His comments were unacceptable but would he have reacted like this if you regularly wore them?

You were free, single and on holiday. What if you had been trying to attract a man? (I'm not saying you were). Would he think 'less' of you? He doesn't sound great tbh.

Gosh, what a prince amongst men. Get rid, OP. You don't have to be able to articulate what you're feeling to know that you don't like it.

He's made it clear what he thinks of women. I'd run a mile, that kind of attitude is deeply offputting. You don't have to try and educate him, and tbh if he can't see women as anything other than "sluts" or "good girls" then he's got a huge amount of learning to do.

In response to Cherries101, women can dress how they like and one way they might choose to dress is to attract the attention of men. None of that is wrong or "slutty". They might also choose to dress differently when in a relationship and not wanting to attract the attention of men. Also fine.

Labelling anyone as slutty because of what they wear wouldn’t sit well with me - it’s all a bit in the vein of looking like they are asking for it type comments and that’s what itches for me. I do think some men still have divided women into categories, smacks of a generalised judgment.

"He said he understood and did believe that I wasn't wearing the shorts for other men, but said regardless I was going to attract male attention, and because I moan about 'creepy men' on nights out, questioned why would I wear this type of clothing. "

This is the really worrying bit.

He thinks that clothes send "signals", that that it's not surprising when men ACT on the "signals" they have received from what a woman or girl has dressed in that day.

This is the argument that schoolgirls are asking for it if they roll their skirts up or wearing lacy underwear means you are lookiing to get fucked even if you're 17 and a virgin and it's a stranger ten years older than you etc

This is the toxic part of what he said and shows a worrying lack of understanding that a woman wearing skimpy clothes is not inviting sexual assault.

My issue is the term "slutty" or "easy" in the first place. What term does he use to describe men out on the pull? How many sexual encounters make a girl a "slut"? I find it irritating how men will be quick to label women as easy when men are, by and large, the easiest gender by far - look at his reaction to your shorts! Just a whiff of female flesh and it has to be all about sex. Regardless of what you wear, or how many people you've slept with, or how other men perceive your attractiveness/ availability, you're not a slut. Nor is any woman. It's derogatory and chauvinistic and very much plays into the idea of women having to be "good" girls, as pp have said, which I abhor. What a disappointing and disgusting point of view to hear.

Only a year in? Dump the bastard.

... Ok, maybe you can put together an argument and present your case to him one last time, but take special note of how he reacts to everything. You do not want to get stuck with someone who is "open to debate" but who, at the end of the day, dismisses your concerns.

You're young, and it only gets harder to break off the longer you are together. It kills me when women post about their shitty partners and then they mention how they're already married to the guy and have children together.

Flee now! While you have the chance!

Dump him. There is no point in trying to educate him or argue against this level of misogynistic stupidity or stupid misogyny.

Yep, agree with the first poster: you're HIS now so you are nothing but wholesome. He'll just go and judge every other female who dresses as she pleases and sleeps with whoever she wants, whenever she wants, as often she wants (he realises that that's the definition of 'slut', right? Consensual sex.)

I'd be buying him a copy of Everyday Sexism by Laura Bates and throwing at his head as I left the relationship.

Yep, big red flag, sadly. Never met a bloke like this who'd be a keeper.

It tells you he fundamentally sees women as objects who are sluts or good girls (up to now he's seen you as "a good girl") and also has an issue with you 'coming on to other men' just by wearing a pair of shorts which spells a nasty jealous streak to me. I would not date any man who calls women sluts, frankly, whether it's me or anyone else. And I don't date men who judge women on number of sexual partners either. That'd be none of their business.

These men do not respect women. Woe betide you if you step out of line in future and dare to do anything less than "perfect angel" in his eyes.

immummynoiam

Labelling anyone as slutty because of what they wear wouldn’t sit well with me - it’s all a bit in the vein of looking like they are asking for it type comments and that’s what itches for me

Yes completely.

What I can't shake off from this man's comments is that he sounds like he would agree "it's not rape if she was wearing lace underwear" and "if she's wearing a mini skirt she consented to sex despite saying no"... He sounds like a proper cunt and I'd run a mile at this point.

Yeah ‘it wasn’t my fault she had her arse hanging out in cut off shorts’. Totally agree.
Or I had to cheat, she lured me with her slutty getup etc.

He's shown you his true colours and what he really thinks of women. Be thankful he's done this before you married him or had children.

It's a form of control.

He will have succeeded if you are now self-conscious about what you wear in future.

LTB

Yup, agree with most of the other posters. Heave a huge sigh of relief that he let the mask slip before he got you (as my late DMum would have said) barefoot and pregnant and tied to the kitchen sink. Dump and move on.

Lemme read your tarot...

While I agree with everything which has been said about women wearing what they want, and men behaving themselves etc (and don't get me started on the pathetic rape apologists!), time and time again, men, women and the scientific community are always banging on about how 'visual' men are, usually some lame comment excusing some guys use of porn. I've been lambasted with this a number of times on other threads. Don't agree it's an excuse for any form of bad behaviour whatsoever, but the fact is, if you do 'have half your arse hanging out of your shorts', you know men are going to look. Men seeing this will (I assume) arrogantly decide you chose to do this because you like being looked at, and therefore like male attention, and it's a small step from that to assuming you're easily available ie slutty.

So I can see where your bf is coming from. Not saying it's right, but I understand it. Could have been better communication on both sides, really.

And if you did have half your arse hanging out, don't blame the hot weather. That's not really the reason, is it? Exposing that small, extra amount of butt cheek isn't going to be any cooler than regular shorts...

He's just telling you what many men out there will think of a girl wearing arse revealing shorts. Right or wrong or in between the fact remains that many men will think a girl showing her butt is easier than a girl not showing her butt. He didn't say you were a slut. He told you what many men would think. No point being outraged by someone telling you a fact. That's what many men will think. There is a biiiiig difference between what should happen and what does happen. I'm telling you that sometimes men who wear clothes with designer labels all over them are a bit sad and icky. Are they? Should People judge them? No. But people do. Saying they shouldn't doesn't change the fact that they do. He was just expressing that fact.

Red flag. He obviously has some unsavoury attitudes.

A friend of DH’s (married with three daughters) made a similar comment in a group on a night, talking about women who do drinks promotions in bars. I was shocked and it changed the way I think about him.

Of course nobody should be raped because of what they wear but don't tell me that any person, male or female, wears shorts showing their bum cheeks for themselves
There are easier ways to keep cool

I'm a woman and I've never "banged on" about how men are more visual.

I also studied science at university and never "banged on" about it there either, but then I was studying physics

What an utterly stupid post.