Advice: Boyfriend Slut Shaming

[k1632225]

Hi everyone, this is my first post so apologies if anything is unclear. I'm coming here as I would really like some advice/material/general thoughts on something that happened a few weeks ago.

A little info about me: I'm 23 and have been in a v happy relationship with my boyfriend for a year now.

While on holiday a few weeks back I was showing my boyfriend pictures from a previous holiday I went on (when we were not together). One picture was just before a friend and I were going on a night out and I was wearing short denim shorts. Immediately he reacted to the picture saying that I looked 'slutty'. I was really taken back by the comment, mainly because throughout our relationship he hasn't once made a misogynist comment or ever spoken about me in a derogatory way. I went on the defense straight away saying that I didn't agree at all with what he had just said. He came back with, well from a guys point of view, compared to girls who aren't wearing shorts that reveal half of their arse, I looked like a slut. I was really hurt, and surprised and the conversation stopped there. I'm not very good at dealing with conflict but knew I wasn't happy with how this had gone so later on, in a more appropriate setting (this initial interchange happened on a tour bus in Iceland) I brought it up again.

I said that I was really hurt that he had called me a slut. He said that he hadn't called me a slut, rather said I looked like one and that was different. He went on to reiterate his view point again about how on a night out, men would see a girl wearing less clothes as easy/more slutty, compared to a girl wearing say jeans.

My main argument point was that I don't care what men think of how I dress. I was wearing those shorts for myself because I thought I looked good. I said that he was feeding a rape culture that women are owned by men, and that everything we do is for the attention of a man. I said that it is incorrect to infer the history of someones sexual past by what they are wearing (i.e. inferring that I've slept with lots of men just because I am wearing short shorts). And lastly said I was in a hot country and therefore wearing shorts were appropriate (not that it should matter what country I am in).

He said he understood and did believe that I wasn't wearing the shorts for other men, but said regardless I was going to attract male attention, and because I moan about 'creepy men' on nights out, questioned why would I wear this type of clothing.

I can't really recall how the conversation ended - I think it was him basically not understanding my points and me feeling hurt and disagreeing with his. I felt annoyed and ignored him for a good hour (lol) but realised we were on holiday so we agreed to postpone this discussion until we returned.

I should note that I'm often not good at verbalising myself in emotive situations and do struggle to say what I want to say unless I have thought about it prior - which is why I'd really appreciate any of your thoughts, so that when I can bring this up I have discussion points I can provide him.

My boyfriend is very open to discussion and wanted to get my point of view and understand why I was so hurt by this comment, he was not aggressive in any way, and I do feel if I can get him to see why his comment/line of thinking is not ok, he would learn from it.

Thanks in advance!!!

lol
boys who wear their trousers at half mast are being "tribal"
girls who wear short shorts are angling for sexual attention from rando men

righto!

There is a man at my work who goes running in 70s style short shorts every lunch break
He is tall and slim so there are these great long legs with tiny shorts at the top.
Literally no-one thinks he is signalling his sexual avaialbility to all and sundry.

He's clearly caught your attention
But no, you are right - women's objectification of men in shorts seems to be confined to celebrities e.g. footballers.

random that should be
randy would probably work as well

for sure when I rolled my school skirt up I was always hoping that some random would shout "gissa blow job at me"
so validating
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm happy days

am proper lol at boys getting "tribal" when they show their pants wihle girls get "sluts" and that they are sending "signals" either consciously or subconsciously.
Girls of course are never "tribal" and are very very sexually aware from the moment they hit puberty, often enjoying sexual attention on the hig street from men twice tehri size and 3 times their age.

Girls, eh? Nightmare.

"He's clearly caught your attention "

He's caught everyone's attention

They are really really very short

And the source of many an office joke (which he is aware of, but persists. i assume they are comfy).

Nothing, I think you picked a bad example with the baggy pants, though.
Boys and men who whip their shirt off at the first sign of any sun, or wear too tight shirts so their muscles strain are more comparable.

Boys who wear their trousers at half mast showign their pants are deemed "tribal"
Girls with their knickers showing are sluts

Yes it is entirely comparable
You on'y think it isn't as you believe that all the boys doing it think they're in the hood
And all the girls doing it are signalling "up for a fuck"

You presume intent differing between sexes

Many of the boys AND girls are simply following the fashion locally. No more no less.

I don't know what they are trying to say. Each and every woman I'm quite sure, has a different reason for wearing the skimpy clothing.
Just like in any communication, there is the intent in the message sent by the person and then there is perception of the person receiving the message- they may be an observer or the intended target.

Communication and human nature is complex, throw into that a variety of opinions and communication errors and you have a mess.

Please by all means split up with a controlling or abusive partner, but to throw away a whole year relationship on a mere observation that someone looks a bit slutty in an outfit on one picture, seems rather trivial. I assume that everyone apart from OP's boyfriend is beyond reproach and has never uttered a single statement that could be deemed mildy offensive to a partner. He didn't say she deserves to be assaulted for heaven's sake. He said men perceive the clothing in a certain way. He is a man and he knows other men.

Tribal as in the terminology for groups of people.

Following local fashions is tribal behaviour.

Boys who wear their trousers at half mast showign their pants are deemed "tribal"
Girls with their knickers showing are sluts

Many, maybe most, maybe not, are following fashion.
But some boys/men wearing tight tees are wanting to attract girls/women.
Some girls/women showing their knickers are wanting to attract boys/men.
I'm not presuming different intent at all.

So you do assert that women and girls who wear skimpy clothes are doing it for a specific reason which is... what exactly?

I'm assuming because she thinks she looks good in them? Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't, that's for her to decide. But you can't tell me that ppl aren't going to look twice at someone's butt cheeks hanging out of their shorts. And you also can't say that (as I think op mentioned she wore shorts as it was hot weather -nothing wrong with that) there's not a difference between shorts, and butt baring short shorts.

I hate the whole slutty thing, but I wouldn't dump him for one comment, he stated a fact, men judge women by what they wear, they shouldn't, but they do. If he is open to discussion perhaps he will be open to examining why men think the way they do, rather than why women dress the way they do. I have a grown up DD and clothes shop with her occasionally, she will reject lots of outfits as 'not slutty enough'. She wants to look sexy, she wants to attract male attention, and she doesn't give a fuck what people think of her.

HashtagLurky

@Aomame83 In your original post you specifically referred to men not people.
And you're still referring to women dressed in a particular way as slutty....not good.

@BlaaBlaaBlaa I think you'll see in my original post I did say
I don't think he is unusual in his attitude, in my experience people do think this way

And I never once said women who wear skimpy clothes are slutty. I stated that OP's boyfriend observed her to be slutty - to simplify, he interpreted what he saw in the picture to mean this. As a PP stated, he has probably internalised this way opinion from his environment, it doesn't mean he is a bad person.

@Aomame83 but you did claim that men are programmed to like sex....as though that some sort of excuse.
We must have different standards in men if you think it's acceptable for a man to say his partner looks like a slut. My DH has seen similar pictures of me but has never called me a slut or made me feel bad about the choices I have made.

Has anyone ever tried to shop for a pair of women's shorts that WEREN'T half way up your arse cheek??? I mean really! It's next to impossible. I resorted to buying shorts from the men's wear department last summer.

All women's clothes are designed to be sexy. Ever try buying a nice thick, well fitting jumper? My bf has about 15 amazing jumpers and sweaters and I could just cry.

All mine are either off the shoulder, short sleeved, cropped, see through ffs!!!!. It's absolutely infuriating. OP has your boyfriend ever been out clothes shopping with you? I challenge him to go out alone into the high street and find a pair of knee length shorts, comparable to men's, but from the women's departments.

Tell him never come back until he finds them. Trust me, he won't ever come back.....

Has anyone ever tried to shop for a pair of women's shorts that WEREN'T half way up your arse cheek???
Yes, there's blummin loads of them, available almost everywhere.

All women's clothes are designed to be sexy.
Not the ones I wear , not sure where you're shopping, this is just plain wrong.

I hate clothes shopping, really hate it, yet manage to find clothes that cover 100% of my arms and legs and are pretty shapeless to be honest. I have loads of jumpers, all nice thick and well fitting. Not a "sexy" one among them.

Here go Sword
Took about 3 seconds with Google.

www.peacocks.co.uk/lds-denim-short-cycle-237f2f.html

From the same shop here's a bunch of non-sexy jumpers:
www.peacocks.co.uk/womens/knitwear/jumpers.html

*Has anyone ever tried to shop for a pair of women's shorts that WEREN'T half way up your arse cheek??? I mean really! It's next to impossible. I resorted to buying shorts from the men's wear department last summer.

All women's clothes are designed to be sexy. Ever try buying a nice thick, well fitting jumper? My bf has about 15 amazing jumpers and sweaters and I could just cry.*

Rubbish, i realise I’m nearly 50 so not really into Top Shop much anymore but where on earth are you actually shopping that that’s all you can find?

I do get an immediate ug reaction when somebody does that ‘well a lot of people would think you’re y if you do x. Not me of course because I know you’re not y, but I can see how other people would think that.’ Which translates to, ‘I think other people are y because they do x but I’ve elevated you above that, but yeah, that’s exactly what I think about those people who do x.’ The implication being, ‘if you do x around me then you will lose my respect, because people who do x are therefore y.’

I'd end the relationship purely because he thinks that women who like and are available for sex (not that you can tell that by clothing) are sluts. He doesn't like women

Men are, whether we like it or not, biologically programmed for sex

But then surely, so are women? We are the same species.

I'm a bit late to the conversation, but first of all I want to say that I DON'T think you should automatically break up with your boyfriend based on this alone. Especially if he's never shown any other signs of being controlling or misogynistic, I think this on its own is not a sign of him being a misogynist. Unfortunately it is what a LOT of people think. He is just repeating messages that are all around us in society. I've even said similar things myself in the past, even though I know rationally that they're not true. If he is a sensitive and intelligent person you should be able to talk to him about it...

As for this: "because I moan about 'creepy men' on nights out, questioned why would I wear this type of clothing" - there's a simple answer to that one: creepy men will creep on you WHATEVER you wear. I think all women have got at least one example of being creeped on whilst wearing jeans and a thick winter coat, for example.

If it was all about what women wear, then beaches and public pools would be absolute perv-fests while Saudi Arabia would be a women's paradise where no women ever suffer violence. In reality, rape and violence does happen in Saudi Arabia, and beaches and pools are generally quite chilled, pleasant places for everyone to be.

What it all boils down to is two things: respect for women, but also, I think basically men find women attractive, and are sometimes scared or confused by the strength of their attraction and how much it can take over their thoughts, so they blame women for "making" them feel that way. As if we chose to have bodies that make the blood rush to their genitals. So they reason that, OK, if we didn't choose our body parts, we do choose to "put them on show". Except it doesn't really work like that, because, as I said, if men were crippled by desire at the mere sight of any female flesh then all men at the beach would be having to hide raging hard-ons at all times. And it's all relative. In Saudi Arabia, all women have to cover everything apart from their eyes in public, but then men just start focusing on women's eyes and voices, or the sway of their hips as they walk, so then the religious police issue statements against women who have "slutty" eyes, or voices, or ways of walking.

Basically, men will always be attracted to certain women, whatever we wear, and it is THEIR job to deal with their feelings. There is no way I am going to make myself very uncomfortable by wearing long trousers on a hot summer's day, just to avoid turning on a handful of pervs who'd almost certainly find a way to be turned on anyway, whatever I wear.

Also, maybe you should point out to your boyfriends that women are attracted to men's bodies too, and ask him whether he thinks he is dressing "slutty" when he takes his top off at the beach or what have you.