The message is getting through

[HouseOfGoldandBones]

I lurk on these boards a lot, but don't usually contribute at all, but thought I'd share this.

Had a man come to read the meter this morning, and the conversation got onto children, and he had a rant because his 2 DD's (12) have just started at a brand newly built school & all of the toilets are gender neutral & he is very, very unhappy about this.

He was very sure to let me know that he wasn't prejudiced at all, but his twin girls refuse to use the toilets at school as they are embarrassed & instead wait until lunch time when they come home to use the loo (& because they live very close, bring some of their friends with them)

He is making an appointment with the Headmaster to let him know that he is setting up a petition with other parents, and, if necessary, will not send his daughters to school until they have their own loos.

He was also very critical of the SNP Government because, in his words, "they're so right-on, they haven't stopped to consider girls wellbeing"

So, it seems that the message is getting through

Good for him!

The more men that complain the better.

And that's lovely of him to ket the friemds use the loo too.

Good for him. But I feel that these girls are having their fucking education compromised by these controlling authoritarian arseholes.

That’s the thing, all the talk about what might happen and what could happen is just dismissed as alarmist or phobic. It’s going to take some real life examples before anyone in power will take notice.

Once the papers run stories about male born people winning races, raping women in prison etc then everyday people will wake up. It’s sad but inevitable, some women and girls’ health and happiness will be sacrificed before anything changes

Good for him. Ridiculous that his home is being used as the de facto girls' loo because there is not longer one at school.

I think a lot of 'old-school' men are very cross about this with regard to their wives and daughters and mothers.

Doesn't the legal requirement for provision of single sex loos in schools for pupils over the age of 8 not apply in Scotland?

It is against regulations in Scotland: scottish-women.com/2018/08/28/where-did-gender-neutral-toilets-in-schools-come-from/

These are the regulations so any school not offering this provision is in breach of those regulations:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1967/1199/pdfs/uksi_19671199_en.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3KSd1utn2toIeWlEGNRqgj3ETYdhx43az81yFj2JrQOt3HyOD_BlI7bm0

You could pass this onto him for him to use at the meeting with the headteacher.

oh my goodness, if he told you about it, imagine how many other people he has told.

good for him. School toilets are bad enough as it is without having teenage boys in with teenage girls

It's ridiculous. Anyone who works with teens or has teens of their own should be able to understand how self conscious most are at that age. I doubt it's just the girls either although they have the added worry of dealing with periods.

It reminds me of the communal shower situation at my high school back in the 90s where loads of girls would bunk off or feign illness to avoid PE lessons just because of the changing rooms and showers. At that point they weren't even forcing anyone male into the environment.

It's funny, isn't it. We always say "it's not about the toilets" because we want to draw people's attention to women's prisons, women's refuges, women's sports. But in the end it is about the toilets, because all women and girls use toilets, whereas most of us don't go to prison/use refuges/play sport.

Good for him. It's a ridiculous situation.

Just think how much money it is going to cost to put right all the damage these arsehole AWAs are doing to our society. All the architectural remodelling, all the education.

This has been my experience with close to 100% of the men I have discussed this with, although most of them are guarded (same as women) because of fear of being accused of bigotry.
The public is with us on this, everyone is just scared to speak out.

The message is getting through to the general public but I'm not sure enough people are letting their elected representatives know how strongly they feel in order to influence policy.

I doubt it's just the girls either although they have the added worry of dealing with periods.

Not a small problem, even without unisex toilets being added into the equation:
www.tes.com/news/nine-ten-girls-fear-period-shaming

psychology.org.au/publications/inpsych/2010/august/nisbet

It's funny, isn't it. We always say "it's not about the toilets" because we want to draw people's attention to women's prisons, women's refuges, women's sports. But in the end it is about the toilets, because all women and girls use toilets, whereas most of us don't go to prison/use refuges/play sport.

I agree. I think toilets are an issue because they’re universally used.

The thing that baffles me is that, given that it's the law that schools have single sex toilet provision, why don't the people commissioning, designing and building schools seem to know this? Shouldn't it be written into building regs for schools?

By all means provide some properly designed gender neutral loos in the mix.

I twinned our loo at home, one of the reasons was for women and girls' safety as well as the hygiene issues.

One of the things that's been at the back of my mind, is the situation in hospitals - are we really heading for mixed sex wards? May pick this up on one of the older threads.

Wasn't there a thing in Scotland about a group putting the government insignia on their materials without permission? I think they went out into schools. Basically lying and cheating.

It IS in the building regulations for schools. The planning is then agreed by the Councils. It is the Councils that people should be complaining about, but has anyone done that?

Those girls are very lucky they can come home. Many schools don't allow kids off-campus during the school day - my eldest's school is completely self-contained, once you go through that gate you don't come out til the bell goes at 3.15pm. At least she would have loos in Sainsbury's across the road for the end of school, though - one school I work at has their entire campus virtually in a wood on the edge of the moors and it's a 15min walk in the wrong direction to home to the nearest, rather isolated, public toilet.

I can see the reasons for the fortressing of schools - controlling access in and out is a huge improvement to safeguarding. But with mixed sex toilets there is then literally no sanctuary from the opposite sex within school. That can't be right or fair.

I agree with him, but its not just on the SNP. Is there any other political party that disagrees? Im a floating voter (voted SNP last time) but im a bit worried about their new LBGT school stuff. If it is promoting no bullying, accepting others are different then fine, if its telling children that they can change sex then thats a big fat no. But who else to vote for?

LikeDust

"Wasn't there a thing in Scotland about a group putting the government insignia on their materials without permission? I think they went out into schools. "

LGBT Youth Scotland. The group who sumitted their response to the Women and Equalities commission, saying they supported crossdressers as being transgender.

Also who in their documents on their website say:

• Parents don't need to be told if a child speaks to them re gender conflict concerns

• Parents don't need to be told if a male born transisitioning child is in overnight accomodation with female born children
• If girls object to transgirls in their accomodation/changing rooms, they should be reeducated about diversity, kindness etc.

Here's an article showing their 'error' in claiming that their document has Scottish government endorsement. They are currently in 60 Scottish schools, teaching the children the contents of this document as part of their 'LGBT Schools Charter', which is available on their website. It's worth a read.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/lgbt-campaign-group-u-turn-12876161

but haven't the Nordic countries been using gender-neutral toilets and changing rooms for years without any problems?