Trans Women Should Be Allowed In Women Only Spaces

[KiBob]

I posted a few days ago that I need help arguing a case on the debating website Kialo. Thanks to your suggestions I've got one claim accepted that I was struggling with.

I'm now trying to get a new claim past admins.

As a supporting claim to:

"Allowing anyone who identifies as female into women-only spaces makes those spaces worse for cis women".

I put this:

"Trans women are 6 times more likely to commit a crime and 18 times more likely to commit a violent crime compared to female controls as found by this study In Sweden in 2011". With a link to this study:
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Admin have responded:

"Hm, interesting link. However, the results don't differentiate between trans men and trans women, and also state this: "Transsexual individuals were at increased risk of being convicted for any crime or violent crime after sex reassignment (Table 2); this was, however, only significant in the group who underwent sex reassignment before 1989." - so this might be a bit outdated - 30 years is pretty long.
Further up, in the Abstract, under results it also says "Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls."

Can you point me to the exact place where you get your numbers? Thanks!"

Help!

Please, ScottCheggJnr, give up. Your racist attempt at making a point failed miserably.

Ok, I admit defeat. It's clearly considered ok to hold trans people to different standards than other demographics.

I repeat: what kind of people are more likely to be in need of medical care for pregnancy and childbirth? Women? Or transwomen?

It is rather convenient through that you seem happy to condemn the groups you're prejudiced against (men and transfolk) for things which you wouldn't dare castigate an ethnic minority for.

I repeat: what kind of people are more likely to be in need of medical care for pregnancy and childbirth? Women? Or transwomen?

What's your point?

I could ask which group is 4x more likely to be attacked by a stranger and much more likely to be murdered.

You are reduced to word salad! Scot!

The point is that that women of all colours are still women!

And men are men. And women are women.

Your point might make some sense if class analysis only focused on sex.

There is no reason to segregate black women and white women. There is a reason to segregate males and females.

...which it largely seems to on here.

There is no reason to segregate black women and white women.

Black female commit crime at a higher rate so the same argument could be applied.

And yet nobody had answered the wuestion why crime rates can be applied to gender discussions but not ethically to race ones....

The fact that you call me a racist for even highlighting this point is further proof that your crime rate argument would be deemed unacceptable when applied to another class.

Black female commit crime at a higher rate so the same argument could be applied.
ScottCheggJnr show me studies that show black women sexually assault white women at a higher rate than vice versa.

Also: sexual crime rates are relevant to sex, because over 95% of sexual crime is committed by a male, generally against females. This is NOT the case in regards to race.

There is no reason to segregate black women and white women and brown women! We are all women - black or white or brown we are all women. We are not men!

There is a reason to segregate males and females, because of proven male violence against women.

But using your argument I could say I don't want to be incarcerated with certain ethnic minorities who are more likely to murder me.

Especially as I'm much more likely to be murdered than you are.

Maybe, but I remember reading a study from the US which looked at interracial rape. I forgot the exact figures, but in that particular city there had not been one conviction of a white man raping a black female, but there were many instances recorded of the opposite - it was either 300 or 3000 I think.

I'm in the US so I'm quite alarmed by this claim. Perhaps you've remembered where you read this study? Or the city at least?

I'm already involved in an initiative which gives disadvantaged boys something to do. What are you doing about rising female violence?

I'm in the US so I'm quite alarmed by this claim. Perhaps you've remembered where you read this study? Or the city at least?

I read it a few years back but will try and find.

Ignoring my comment I see, Scott?

So, we're saying that whether you hold a class responsible for their elevated rates of violence is down to the %. At what point does this consideration come into play then.

70% of homicide victims are male so should we then focus on male victims?

I'm in the US so I'm quite alarmed by this claim. Perhaps you've remembered where you read this study? Or the city at least?

It wasn't a specific city actually, it was the National Victimisation surveys where they broke down the figures for interracial rape - I don't believe they break it down like that anymore but you can find the previous reports online.

I can't speak to the accuracy of the data (I believe it is estimated) but it certainly supports the view that studies can be used to make a particular demographic look bad which is what previous posters are saying about the trans statistics.

Presently the FBI appears to have only published the full statistical tables up to year 2008. After that the FBI website only has smaller “bulletins” that do not include the full data.

From this data we find that blacks commit sexual assault against almost as many whites as blacks. However, white on black sexual assault is an extreme rarity.

Year 2003– Rape/Sexual Assault

White on Black:0
Black on White: 20,309
Black on Black: 21,104

Year 2004– Rape/Sexual Assault

White on Black: 0
Black on White: 11,610
Black on Black: 35,330

Year 2005– Rape/Sexual Assault

White on Black : 0
Black on White: 37,460
Black on Black: 36, 620

Year 2006– Rape/Sexual Assault

White on Black: 0
Black on White: 32, 443
Black on Black: 7,705

Year 2007– Rape/Sexual Assault

White on Black: 0
Black on White: 14,092
Black on Black: 12,780

Year 2008– Rape/Sexual Assault

White on Black: 0
Black on White: 19,292
Black on Black: 34,841

Total over six conservative years:

White on Black: 0
Black on White: 135,206
Black on Black: 148,380

Average over six consecutive years:

^White on Black: 0
Black on White: 22,534
Black on Black: 24,730^

Do you have a link?