Women's Place event in Reading - 4th Dec

[ContessaHallelujahSparklehorse]

It's local to me so I'm delighted!!

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-at-the-bar-tickets-52641760924?utm-medium=discovery&utm-campaign=social&utm-content=attendeeshare&aff=escb&utm-source=cp&utm-term=listing

Innate or immutable characteristics such as sex and race are legislated for.

But what of gender? A person's innate sense of something that is culturally determined?

If we agree- are women innately inferior to men? (We disagree in the room)

Julian mooted gender ID could be covered by article 9 freedom of belief on twitter and everyone online gasped with horror.

Julian says belief is not woo- must be genuinely held, must be weighty, substantial part of human life, not conflict with human rights of others.

But if belief is protected, so is DISBELIEF (OOOH)

Freedom of expression - right not to use compelled speech.

Not beyond wit of legislature to maintain gender ID, plus agnosticism or non belief, and protection of women's services

(BTW I am paraphrasing all of this I am sure!)

Sex is protected - does that apply to people who have acquired a sex through gender reassignment.

Providers perplexed. Go online. Official EHRC advice totally unclear (as is Scottish guidance)

Case law:

Case called Green. Male prisoner Green Wanted wigs, prosthetic Vagina! Tights. Prisoner had no gender dysphoria, no GRC.

Judge was like WTF and was accused of prejudice by legal commentator.

Still not clear if GRC brings someone in to single sex services.

And what of women who have article 8 right to psychological integrity - fear of male violence may breach this right if single sex space not protected

Definitely need to watch and rewatch any video of Julian's speech. So much information!

Rosa is going to talk about international human rights framework

Rosa flings away microphone and stands up like boss

International human rights sprung from ashes of nazi Germany.

No country had laws about how the state treated it's own citizens - nothing in nazi Germany that they did to their own citizens was unlawful.

Countries got together and drafted the 70 year old this week universal declaration of human rights

But lawyers and idealists didn't bother to protect protected characteristics - we're all humans!

But even if states signed up, women got treated badly (interestingly some Communist states didn't sign up)

So the UN adopted treaty on eliminating ALL forms of discrimination against women

Protecting women paved the way to protect other groups -children or people with disabilities for e.g.

And we have laws -tools - that allow us to lobby for change on the ground.

In intemational human rights law, woman is defined as biological sex. (And Rosa is writing a paper on this)

Now April Ashley- married a high society man, and could not consummate the marriage. So court looked at whether she was not a woman, or her husband/parnter could not consummate the marriage.

Court decided sex is genitalia, gonads, biology and Rosa says read the case on press for change website, good summary

Noises outside.

(Bouncer stomped off to door - we all look round. Perhaps the protesters have found the top secret venue)

Thank you for the live commentary! I wish I didn't live at the other end of the country.

Rosa- why is the trans lobby merging sex and gender. We and the people protesting need to find a way through this.

(Bouncer is a big fella I'm pleased to say).

Why are rights around gender ID the right to identify as a sex?

Yogiakarta (none of us can pronounce this) principles

Gender ID definition is oft 'identity of the Gender of the Gender you Id with'. But this is hard and that definition is required for e.g. inclusion in UN law.

So solution to this seems to be the rights claimed are women's rights.

Rosa mentions the forced sterilisation rules in France, Denmark etc - before someone could be given treatment/recognition.

Many of the countries that introduced self ID are those that were trying to remedy these forced sterlisation laws.

Denmark: went from forced sterlisation law, to self id after 6 months of self reflection and so people can then change their Id docs.

Denmark tiny, 6m people, and already seeing cases of women experiencing sexual violence from people exploiting these rules

Ruth Serwotka of WPUK is up!

100k filled in the consultation - round of applause for us. And we have mobilised so many women- established a women's movement.

Ruth is talking about expanding on their 5 demands- and particularly free speech and right to freely assemble.

The protesters have the right to protest - but not to prevent us meeting.

Women's rights must be protected and exemptions in equality act to be reviewed. Chilling and silencing effect in women's sector as women under pressure to have policies which are inclusive to trans people.

Cps consulting on review hate crime legislation - sO important this covers violence against women

We must also make sure that trans rights arguments don't mean women's speech on women's issues are hate speech- for e.g. Meghan Murphy

Thank you anlaf

Baroness Williams has written excellent letter setting out need to balance between women's right s and trans people's, and for fair play in individual sports, and that single sex spaces not automatically open to those with GRC

Ruth - we persist against vicious misogyny and silencing.

WINE BREAK

Btw my bad paraphrasing is augmented by excellent commentary from radfemlawyer and Dr em on twitter (and others!)

mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%23WPUKReading&src=typeahead_click&f=live

contessa offered me a but being Scottish I was at the front of the bar queue.

You go girl!