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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this normal for a woman or is it gender dysphoria?

105 replies

cockBlocker · 15/11/2018 21:52

Forgive me the following description is stating the obvious for some of you, but I wanted to post this to encourage a discussion about how women experience their own bodies. Like other women here, one of the numerous objections I have to the term ‘cis’ is that I have never felt comfortable with gender norms or my own body and have no innate sense of being female.

Even as a small child I hated being cooed over simply because I had long blonde hair. I felt reduced to little more than a doll and always wondered why my hair should matter, it was so trivial. I asked to get my hair cut off but my mother wouldn’t let me. I hated that I had to be a bridesmaid, being paraded around in a ridiculous dress – even though I was only around eleven, I still felt dehumanised, being shown off as a thing rather than a person. Similar was having to wear a skirt for Sunday School, I didn’t see why God would care if I had a skirt on or not. I hated it in Brownies too, I wanted to be active and not worry about whether I was showing my pants or not. I hated that I wasn’t allowed to have ‘boys toys’ like a chemistry set because I was told it was dangerous.

I’ve never been overweight, but as soon as my body started to develop I felt fat. When I was a teenager I developed bulimia and it’s something I’ve struggled with on and off ever since. I hate when my stomach bloats up to three times it’s normal size when I’m due to get my period so I can grab handfuls of flesh around my middle. I have a fairly slim but curvy body, and I feel that it attracts the kind of men I don’t want to attract, it somehow makes them assume that I’m stereotypically feminine in my interests or a bimbo, inferior in every possible way. I hate it when I find men staring at my tits rather than listening to me. I also hate it when you get looked up and down by women, as happens often when you’re walking down the street minding your own business. The sad thing is I’m sure I do it too, we get programmed to monitor each other and make sure no woman steps out of place with what she’s wearing or how she’s behaving – not too confident in her own body, covered up enough etc. I try to dismantle this and smile at women I pass on the street now (when I’m not being a miserable git), I want things to change.

I feel like I had to learn how to like heterosexual sex. The thought of a man’s ejaculate to be honest still does make me feel a bit sick. I do enjoy sex, but the submissive nature of it for a woman and the way it reduces me to just a body at times repulses me.

I hate the way that relatives and friends’ parents feel it their place to comment on my body – my weight, the straightness of my legs, my posture. One of my ex-boyfriend’s mothers seemed to size me up like a prize cow, assessing my health as a potential breeder. I realise this might be a bold thing to say on Mumsnet, but I’ve never wanted to have children. I have a recurring nightmare that I am pregnant, I wake up in a cold sweat. It’s the thought of feeling trapped by my body, as much as the way I feel society would view me as a purely physical being existing only to bring other life into the world rather than in my own right (please note that this isn’t how I see mothers myself).

I hate when I go to the gym that the idiot men in there look at me lifting the heaviest weights I can with a smarmy look, as if they’re comparing themselves to me and getting an ego boost, thinking how pathetic I am. I hate being grabbed around my waist as though I’m a man’s f*ing property and sexualised as a ‘thing’ before they’ve even spoken to me.

I was wondering how many other women feel the way I do? When a young teen I wondered if I was gay, even though that’s never been my orientation. I said many times whilst growing up that I wanted to be a boy, but being transgender wasn’t on the radar back then. I have no idea how I would feel about it if I was growing up now, it seems like it would be ten times worse.

I hope no-one minds me posting this. I’ve never really talked about just how uncomfortable I feel in my own body with anyone before, so I honestly don’t know if what I’m describing is extreme or very common. I feel genuinely deeply distressed how women are being redefined by transgender ideology as supposedly comfortable in their own bodies, as it is something I have struggled with my entire life and it continues daily. As a reaction to this, I’m currently rethinking how to present myself as more androgynous by cutting my hair off and wearing more masculine clothes. I can’t stand the idea of gender norms being reinforced any more than they already are, I feel trapped.

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MIdgebabe · 15/11/2018 21:59

Not abnormal.

All I would add is that I have found the whole trans thing stirring up a lot of emotion. I had learned to accept my body as it is, I disagree with surgical alteration in general, I know sexism is their weak minds not my fault, but I sometimes succumb to the trans thinking. Could I have avoided rape? By calling myself David ( my preferred name as a child) , by having a mastectomy? By being a better man? Was it my fault?

JellySlice · 15/11/2018 22:00

I don't think that's dysphoria. I think that's hyper-acute awareness of the reality of being female in this world.

Break gender norms as you wish. Present yourself androgynously if that feels right to you. Widen the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman. Find your own right way to be a woman.

SirVixofVixHall · 15/11/2018 22:05

I agree with JellySlice.
I’ve felt a lot of those things, although I am a mother and really wanted children. Female gender norms are constraining ! Rail against them. Wear what you like, don’t feel you have to “present “ as something.

RagingWhoreBag · 15/11/2018 22:07

I had two brothers and my mum was so pleased to also have a girl, she loved dressing me up in pretty clothes.

There’s a tape recording of me one Christmas absolutely bursting with excitement because Santa brought me trousers!!! I just wanted to be like them, didn’t see why I should wear different things etc. we all played out together and had a shared group of friends, went out on our bikes (BMX) and played British Bulldog etc.

When I was about 10 I showed my mum a photo of some mullet haired male musician and said I wanted hair like his. She happily cut it for me!

Then I wanted it short, and again she obliged. She pretty much let me look however I chose, but I’m sure she was a bit disappointed, bless her.

I remember someone in a shop saying to their child “let this little boy come through” and I was annoyed that they’d thought I was a boy. I didn’t really want to be one, but I’d bought into all the stereotypes of being a boy, I just didn’t want to look like a girly girl.

Two years later, with long hair again, my friends dad tried it on with me. And that’s when the body hatred sets in isn’t it. Sad

cockBlocker · 15/11/2018 22:07

Jelly - Yes, I don't think it's dysphoria either, I think it's disgust with the crippling effects of a sexist society, but I think it might be true that a lot of people who become trans have experiences like mine.

MIdgebabe - it's very distressing, just when I thought I'd found a lot of ways to deal with the way society is it feels this is a new attack. Also Flowers

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anniehm · 15/11/2018 22:09

Agree with Jellyslice. There's so much variation in what we are - not everyone with XX chromosomes feels feminine and that's completely normal, we live in a country and at a time where we are free to be who we want to be (within reason). More understanding of this I think will make people more comfortable in their bodies

cockBlocker · 15/11/2018 22:13

RagingWhoreBag Flowers My parents treated me in a fairly gender neutral manner, to be fair, but there were still limitations and outside the home of course. Yes, my body hatred was largely due to my narcissistic mother calling me fat and ugly as soon as I started developing.

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PurpleOva · 15/11/2018 22:18

Being unfeminine is normal for me, I normally describe myself as masculine.

I hated that my Mum felt the need to take me to get my legs waxed when I was younger.

But, I had my hair as short as I liked and was always able to wear trousers and trainers or boots.

I mostly just got to be "me" even if that didn't fit in with femininity... Including have a chemistry set which was awesome! You should get one for yourself now if you still want one!

I'm a non make up wearing, bra free, hairy woman who dresses in unisex t-shirts and jeans. That's my normal!

cockBlocker · 15/11/2018 22:23

PurpleOva - I did it at A level in the end and got an A! I think I've tried to present myself as 'feminine' for way too long even though I'm not comfortable with how people treat me, just because I wanted to fit in. This whole trans debate is making me rethink all that.

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PurpleOva · 15/11/2018 22:25

I would add that counselling (not gender identity stuff just general counselling) might really help you to come to terms with some.of the stuff you are feeling and find the roots and help you overcome the effects of these feelings in your day to day life.

Counselling has helped me a lot in the past, it might help give you the insight you need to move forward to being happy in your skin.

Dalin · 15/11/2018 22:26

I don’t identify with gender stereotypes. Whilst watching the fantastic bbc2 Great War doc I imagined myself in the place of those men, without considering gender. I’m quite a positive person so I view having door held open for me, being called ‘love’ by strangers etc. as acts of warmth and kindness.

Dalin · 15/11/2018 22:28

Op I’m sorry you had to grow up with a narcissistic mother. Must have been awful at times.

cockBlocker · 15/11/2018 22:32

PurpleOva - yes, there are things I've never really come to terms with.

Dalin - Yes, I always try to see what people's intentions are and if it's to be polite that's all well and good. The problem is we as women are used to imagining ourselves as male protagonists, but men tend to have little empathy for us. Those men in the doc (which was brilliant) would have been unlikely to see you as an equal or imagine what it's like to live your life.

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cockBlocker · 15/11/2018 22:33

Dalin - yes, it was hell. My father was violent too, so there's a lot of reasons why I feel like this.

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TetherEnding · 15/11/2018 22:36

I can't find link, but have read a significant proportion females feel like this in response to hypersexualisation and/or misogyny they experience or observe directly or around them.

My story is similar to yours. Not saying we're normal Grin but you are not alone.

GrinitchSpinach · 15/11/2018 22:38

I feel like I had to learn how to like heterosexual sex. The thought of a man’s ejaculate to be honest still does make me feel a bit sick. I do enjoy sex, but the submissive nature of it for a woman and the way it reduces me to just a body at times repulses me.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this despite (I think?) feeling confident that your orientation is actually heterosexual. I don't quite understand why heterosexual sex feels "submissive" to you as a woman? Did something specific happen, or is that just always how it's felt to you? Flowers

cockBlocker · 15/11/2018 22:46

GrinitchSpinach - I would call myself heterosexual but not attracted to men very often. There are a number of reasons for sex feeling submissive I suppose, to do with growing up with a violent father and associating femininity as weakness (he never hit my brother). Probably to do with a bad choice of partners too. I just feel the way men look at me as a violation sometimes.

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sonlypuppyfat · 15/11/2018 22:46

I've never in over fifty years of my life ever recognised any of those feelings you've expressed. Life must be difficult at times for you. I was quite attractive when I was younger and had lots of male attention but I never felt inferior etc

cockBlocker · 15/11/2018 22:47

Gawd, I'm probably more damaged than I realised, I guess it's not entirely normal.

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cockBlocker · 15/11/2018 22:49

sonlypuppyfat - I'm pleased for you, can't imagine what that must be like. Probably the way I was raised.

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NotZenEnough · 15/11/2018 22:50

It sounds normal to me OP.
I was always tall and skinny. I always wanted to have breasts, and was profoundly disappointed with my androgynous body, but I don't think I could have coped with being sexually attractive to men. It was bad enough being young and vaguely pretty but to have had breasts as well would have been really hard work.
Now I am older I am profoundly grateful for my lack of curves as a young woman, and I see what my curvy friends and young women today had and have to endure in the way of male attention.
I wish small breasts on my daughters.

GrinitchSpinach · 15/11/2018 22:56

Have you ever had any counselling, OP? It sounds like you had a very difficult childhood. I didn't, but my DH did (and his parents' issues continue to affect us to this day!) and it helped both of us enormously to find the right sort of person to talk to about everything stemming from that. (Not that it is easy to find the right person; the wrong counsellor can absolutely do more harm than good! But worth searching for the right person.)

hdh747 · 15/11/2018 23:04

I have actually never felt particularly masculine or feminine, I could easily be persuaded that I am non-gendered or such like. But I've always just thought of myself as a person. If you ask me what sex I am, I'm a woman, simple biological fact.

I'm not body confident, as my dad told me as a teenager, 'you used to be pretty when you were 2,' and 'you have hands like and Irish navvy' - thanks dad. I have a big nose, a square arse, big hands and feet, and very small tits. Barbie I aint. I have nice eyes and a nice smile. But I have always valued the beauty of a good heart more than a perfect physique in other people, so I'm trying to convince myself I should treat myself by the same standards. Sometimes it works.

I have mixed feelings about sex since it's very enjoyable with my hubby of many years but the narrative that runs through society with some men that men 'take, have or give it to' women makes me feel that men still own too much sexual power and I do 'feel' quite viscerally some of the negative messages and downright misogyny that runs as a narrative through some of what sexuality is about and yes that does cut through to my own sexual confidence.

cockBlocker · 15/11/2018 23:06

GrinitchSpinach thanks, I've tried before but I think I need something more long term than the 6weeks I was offered. Feeling a bit self-conscious about posting now, but I was wondering if anyone else is feeling 'triggered' (god I hate that word) in the same way by this 'cis' crap being enforced. I also wonder if women who have transitioned have felt like this.

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PurpleOva · 15/11/2018 23:08

Sexuality is a big spectrum. I never related to people going "phwoar" for celebs, or randomers. I'd probably have a new fangled label like demisexual or some such nonsense!

I don't think it's a case of being "not normal", everybody has hang ups and struggles, they just might not be the same as yours.

A reinvention with a new wardrobe and new haircut can be a really empowering thing to do.