Sportswear..question on behalf of dh

[MIdgebabe]

Why do female athletes wear crop tops and extra short shorts? Surely if there was a performance issue, men would dress the same. Is it just to encourage Male fans to ogle women’s bodies? How does that help teach men to respect them for their athletic capability?

For me, it’s not about a woman’s right to wear sexy clothes or be a lap dancer etc. Some things that women choose to do are not beneficial to the feminist project

This is the quote that led me to say that women can make choices as long as it's the right choice. It appears they shouldn't wear the athletics kit they choose to because other women think they shouldn't.

I used to wear cropped top and knicker shorts to run. I was not good enough for sponsorship etc and I certainly did not think I was sexy. I just liked the wind on my body and it felt cooler.

So it's one of those women should be able to make a choice as long as it's the right choice things then?

NerrSnerr don't you understand? Women , with the exception of a small band of radical feminists who have seen the light , arecincapable of ever making a decision by themselves about what they want to wear because their brains are so addled by the patriarchy and internalised misogyny.

You can talk about your experience of being involved in sport but if it doesn't conform to the idea you are oppressed it is
of no interest.

We are talking about statistics here. Why are female athletes‘ clothes more revealing than male ones?

A: because statistically women are more keen on feeling the wind on their bare skin than men.

B: because wearing revealing, skimpy clothes is incentivized and consequently normalized for women but not for men.

A conundrum. For a liberal feminist.

I'm not a liberal feminist. I merely credit women with some ability to think.

Could it be that (shock horror) some women actually like to show off their lean, toned and aesthetic bodies in the same way that many gymgoing men like to wear tight tops that show off their muscles?

I don't picture many radfems being the types to be obsessed with obtaining 'the perfect squat booty' but many women certainly are.

I'm pretty sure that the many women doing the 90 day squat challenge aren't trying to get more proficient at picking up a stack of Andrea Dworkin books off the floor.

Yeah Lass, I am sure you also credit yourself with the ability to think. So, please tell me, what is it that makes the blank slates that female athletes are on average choose way more revealing clothes than male athletes. Is it the Hotpant gene?

what is it that makes the blank slates that female athletes are on average

What do you mean by this? Is this about intelligence?

No, by 'blank slate' I mean women who apparently make free choices in a vacuum and haven't be socialized to 'market' their body the way that is pervasive in society - from miniskirts to high heels and lip stick.

Don't get me wrong, I did all that (and rarely still do) - and I felt good about myself and proud of my body, but even while doing that I was/am very well aware in the back of my head, that considering myself attractive in high heels and a mini skirt is a product of our culture and female socialization that is designed to limit women and not some natural preference I developed in a vacuum.

SO ther may be physical differences, and there have been instances of pressure to sex up.

Beyond that some women think that women’s choices are partly driven by a biological urge to impress a mate and partly driven by a need to fit in with the tribe ( and partly driven by the woman’s conscious logical brain)

The tribe effect is where society pressures are felt. The less secure and self confident the woman, the more likely the tribe effect will have a significant impact on her thinking. Which is perhaps why (another thread) very successful women don’t always see patriarchy. And is why some women see adverts that promote insecurity and sexualisation as particularly nasty.

?

Ah ok, I thought the 'on average' was about the blank slate and not the clothes.

I think many male athletes would wear less if given the choice (on the top half, the reasons what they don't wear very short shorts has already been discussed). In warm weather training lots of male athletes just don't wear a top.

I'd be interested to hear what current top athletes think about this. There are many battles going on in sport to make it equal (in athletics they are trying to make cross country distances equal and of course there's the ongoing prize money debate). I think it's unfair to say that athletes don't see patriarchy. I just think their priorities are different and they don't agree that wearing a cropped top and knicker shorts is a problem.

What about gymnastics? Don’t the women get judged on appearance as well as performance?
No. There are some rules about e.g. no visible bra straps (which irritates the neck out of me) but they don't get judged on appearance.
For diving/gym etc the less clothing the better. You don't need fabric getting in the way of your bending or causing friction on the bar.
I can't speak for men but I like exercising wearing as little as possible. Have to wear a sports bra otherwise its uncomfortable and I prefer slightly longer shorts to avoid chafing. But if I had a thigh gap i would totally be in hot pants.

I think it's sexist that women can't wear what they want without it being assumed it's to look sexy.

I've no idea why men don't wear short shorts but I can see why they don't wear crop tops. They don't have boobs so they can wear a vest where a woman would have a hotter, double fabric layer

@QuentinWinters if a man wore knicker shorts they'd probably be worried things would fall out as there's a lot of movement down there when running.

Beach volleyball was never on my radar but I just googled their costumes. Omg, they are wearing thongs! What on earth is the justification for this? I don’t seem to remember Val Kilmer wearing a thong when he played beach volleyball in Top Gun, even though he was bare-chested.

When my child was a toddler I used to take them for a swimming lesson followed by a play in the fun pool- so about an hour in the water. I got so fed up of being cold that I invested in a lightweight wetsuit- sleeveless but with longer legs. I was a size 12 at the time and had nothing to worry about, but the feeling of freedom it gave to be completely un-exposed was brilliant.

Beyond that some women think that women’s choices are partly driven by a biological urge to impress a mate

This is what I was going to suggest.

It's quite telling that the vast majority of pop songs are about falling in love and that women are the primary consumers (not teenagers as most people assume).

If you think professional athletes are running in short shorts so that they can cop off with someone in the audience you're out of your frickin mind.

This conversation is incredibly frustrating and seems to be going round in circles. A number of women on this thread who take part in sport themselves have said that the fewer clothes they wear the better so as to enhance performance (I was one of them). This is not some lame excuse because we really just want to look hot, either on a conscious, subconscious level, or because we are bad liberal/neoliberal feminists, it is about sports performance (try running a marathon in shorts that chafe your thighs, which rub together more than men's due to higher body fat and the rotation of the pelvis, you will get scars and might not even be able to finish. There is a reason that the ancients would compete naked). THAT IS NOT TO SAY that I condone sports kits being sexed-up to sell sports to the masses, I certainly don't, and I agree with the other posters who have referred to and condemned examples of this happening - I find it ridiculous tennis players are supposed to wear skirts, for example. When I have mentioned choice (and I think some of the other posters too) I have meant choice with regards to what is going to help one compete, not choice according to being sexy or gaining sponsorship. Please can we listen to each other and avoid jumping to conclusions and calling each other the wrong sort of feminist, it's shitty.