Sportswear..question on behalf of dh

[MIdgebabe]

Why do female athletes wear crop tops and extra short shorts? Surely if there was a performance issue, men would dress the same. Is it just to encourage Male fans to ogle women’s bodies? How does that help teach men to respect them for their athletic capability?

You think it isn't an issue for a female athlethe when she is forced to dress in ways she herself considers uncomfortably revealing while making sports, because it apparently not her performance but her body that is meant to attract attention?

Oh fgs - credit women with some intelligence. "Forced to dress ,etc..." You have no idea what is in their heads.

Caster Semenya immediately sprung to my mind. And what was interesting on Googlng images of her what comes up are her and groups of other runners in a variety of costumes. Many are the knickers and crop tops variety but by no means all and given Semeya's choice is Lindford Christie style long shorts there clearly is choice.

In athletics in the UK there is choice and in no way does the coach tell an athlete what to wear in competition unless it was hindering for example a baggy vest when doing high jump. The coach is there for athletic ability and nothing to do with the athlete's 'brand'. It is an insult to think that Toni Minichiello may have been telling Jessica Ennis-Hill to compete in sexy clothes. They may discuss what would be appropriate for different events in different climates but as a coach he's interested in performance and that alone. That goes for other athletes (I just went for the best known).

If you follow cross country you'll see a really big variation. Some fully covered (leggings and long sleeved top under vest) and some still stick with cropped top and knicker shorts.

I think many athletes are so used to training in very little (in the summer and indoors many will wear cropped tops/ sports bras and little shorts it is just the norm. This is people training with no cameras around so no pressure from sponsors etc,

It is an insult to think that Toni Minichiello may have been telling Jessica Ennis-Hill to compete in sexy clothes

Absolutely.

Oh fgs - credit women with some intelligence. "Forced to dress ,etc..." You have no idea what is in their heads.

Given those Beach Volleyball athletes publicly protested - as I pointed out earlier - I happen to know what went on in their heads. You on the other hand obviously dismiss what those women said, because it goes against your narrative.

What narrative would that be?

I see your narrative conveniently ignores NerrSnerr' s point

But to choose something different to the norm would come at a cost. There would be media focus on the clothing, for example.

So ‘yes this is the best clothing because x,y,z physical realities’ answers the question.

‘Of course they are powerful enough to choose something different if they want to’ doesn’t really. I mean, take any sort of fashion. Nothing made flares eminently suitable for the 70s and not any other time, did it? So clearly people are influenced by others and what they wear. So free choice, yes, but up to a point.

I will say I don't know about beech volleyball etc as it's not my area and I don't know any competitors. The OP asked about athletes in cropped tops and short shorts and that's an area I know about. My dad is also a coach (one of his athletes has just got their first international vest) and I'm certain he doesn't dictate what any of his athletes wear. They wouldn't listen to him if he did!

Of men wore extra short shorts the we would see their knackers. And we dont want to see their knackers.

It’s okay, deep, according to Lass and others, there is no such thing as patriarchy and female oppression. It’s just women making fully informed choices about their lives. It’s just a coincidence that those choices make them worse off than men and allow male exploitation. If anyone questions that, we are insinuating that women are thick and cannot make choices.

Athletes do wear different clothes and no one bats an eye lid. This picture is at last year's world championship. Some in vests and longer shorts, some in cropped tops and knicker shorts.

Or let's take Badminton...

'In an attempt to revive flagging interest in women’s badminton as the 2012 London Olympics approach, officials governing the sport have decided that its female athletes need to appear more, how to put it, womanly.

To create a more “attractive presentation,” the Badminton World Federation has decreed that women must wear skirts or dresses to play at the elite level, beginning Wednesday. Many now compete in shorts or tracksuit pants. The dress code would make female players appear more feminine and appealing to fans and corporate sponsors, officials said.

Free choice, my arse.

www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/sports/badminton-dress-code-for-women-criticized-as-sexist.html

NerrSnerr your posts seem to be invisible to everyone apart from me. Odd

Or Handball:

'Spanish women athletes criticise European Handball Federation regulations forcing them to wear skimpy bikinis'

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10961635/Spanish-women-athletes-slam-handball-bikini-rules.html

Athletes do wear different clothes and no one bats an eye lid.

To be fair, their potential sponsors may well bat an eye lid. Because sex simply sells.

'Though some feminists may look down on Vonn for agreeing to pose for such a photo because it draws attention away from her athletic achievements, Adler argues that consumers shouldn’t blame the player but the game. “It’s a basic pragmatic issue that that’s the way the game is played, and you’re an athlete that has the ability to cash in on that game, then I suppose you might as well.”

He points to someone like Anna Kournikova, who was as (or more) famous for her body as she was for her tennis skills. Kournikova racked up $15 million despite never winning a major title. She did, however, practically break the Internet when an email that lured people to open a link by promising sexy photos of her crashed computers across the world in 2001. USA Today sports reporter Christine Brennan wrote a satirical column about the best-looking male tennis player who has never won a major during Kournikova’s heyday (spoiler alert: you’ve never heard of him).'

time.com/6714/medals-arent-enough-female-olympians-still-have-to-sell-sexiness-2/

'Fun historical fact: from the mid-eighties until about four years ago, women’s beach volleyball was all about the T and A. Uniform regulations deemed those lithe ladies had to compete in crop tops, with bikini bottoms that should not exceed six centimetres in width at the hip.

At the time, the president of Volleyball Australia, Craig Carracher, said it wasn’t sexist at all, merely showing off the athletic bodies of women. In the most textbook mansplain, he blamed the controversy surrounding the skimpy uniforms on us. We’re the sexist ones for even mentioning it. “When the public stops concentrating on women’s uniforms and starts to admire their athletic performance will be the real benchmark for when culturally we have advanced beyond sexism and gender inequality in sport,” he told SBS. Did I mention the men, playing the same game, presumably there for people to “admire their athletic performance” wore shorts and singlets?'

www.mamamia.com.au/female-athletes-in-bikinis/

I'll leave it there.

Thanks deepwatersolo that is very informative, especially how dress codes have changed over time. The idea that you have to wear high-cut knickers to run your best time or play your best game is ludicrous. That there are the odd exceptions like Caster Semenya proves little. People tend to conform, don’t they? The point is, no male athletes wear outfits that show that amount of skin.

People tend to conform, don’t they? The point is, no male athletes wear outfits that show that amount of skin.

I think that there is a lot that is coming together. Male dominated committees decree that hotter uniforms sell better, and, you know, as an athlete who loves her sport and wants it as prominent in media as possible, it makes sense to go along.
Equally, you will attract more sponsors as a female individual, if you manage to become some kind of attractive/sexy brand. Journalists will cheer it on, trainers will, you get money for it and I can well believe that there is also pride in your body involved.
But the bottom line of all this is that female athletes' outfits will sport outfits that are way more sexualized that those of male athletes.
(Male athletes sell their bodies too, no doubt, but all in all there is more focus on strength than sexyness).

@deepwatersolo this picture is from a diamond league race. Diamond leagues all ALL about money and sponsorship. Athletes wear the kit supplies by their sponsor. Once again there is a variation in what people are wearing. In athletics there does appear to be a choice! www.iaaf.org/news/news/eugene-diamond-league-2015-1500m

(I can't post any more pics today so had to put the link)

But @Peakpants in the picture I posted of the world championship it isn't only Caster in a vest and there are more women in longer shorts!

Nerr the fact that some women wear longer shorts does not disprove the misogyny of professional sports. It’s a far greater issue than whether some women choose to wear X or Y. The free choice argument is limited when women as a sex class have a lot of restrictions placed on their choices.
I guess this is the radical vs liberal feminism in play on this thread...

@Peakpants you'd talked about an 'odd example like Caster Semenya'. Obviously it's not an odd example. I can think of many British international athletes who wear vests and longer shorts as well.

What would you prefer to happen? Should the governing bodies tell women they should cover up?

@deepwatersolo this picture is from a diamond league race. Diamond leagues all ALL about money and sponsorship. Athletes wear the kit supplies by their sponsor.

I do not doubt that. But I am also pretty sure that those women who think it will give them an edge in attracting sponsors to choose the sexier shorts will mostly do so, if there are no cultural, religious or personal (like feeling very uncomfortable in it) reasons forbidding it.

Nerr that might actually be a good idea. I am sure it will spark protests though, just like the grid girls debate.
It depends on your outlook. For me, feminism is about getting rid of harmful structures that allow exploitation of women. For me, it’s not about a woman’s right to wear sexy clothes or be a lap dancer etc. Some things that women choose to do are not beneficial to the feminist project as a whole. However, I do appreciate that more liberal feminists think differently.

So it's one of those women should be able to make a choice as long as it's the right choice things then?

I do not think that women should be forced to wear certain clothes and think something should be done about the sports that dictate size of shorts etc. In athletics in the UK I assure you that coaches, sponsors and governing bodies are not forcing athletes to wear certain things. In smaller international competitions where athletes don't get a choice of kit they are given vests, not the smaller items (same as most county and area comps). I just wanted to make that clear as it was said upthread that coaches encourage athletes to wear skimpy clothes and that is categorically not true.

So it's one of those women should be able to make a choice as long as it's the right choice things then?

Why do you conclude that this is what we say? The question of the thread was 'Why do female athletes wear crop tops and extra short shorts?' And the answer is: Because sex sells, which is why in some sports this type of attire is forced on female athletes, while in others it is only monetarily incentiviced.

The bottom line is that there is a rational explanation for this general pattern of attire among female athletes. Nothing more, nothing less.