Sportswear..question on behalf of dh

[MIdgebabe]

Why do female athletes wear crop tops and extra short shorts? Surely if there was a performance issue, men would dress the same. Is it just to encourage Male fans to ogle women’s bodies? How does that help teach men to respect them for their athletic capability?

Okay I will give a little bit. Basically to say they choose to wear it misses the point that women in sport are consistently devalued and degraded and the expectations to wear certain clothes reflects that. Maybe not all athletes care but there have been high profile reports of sexual abuse of female athletes within the industry- eg the US gymnastics team. It’s not just a free choice.

Sorry for offending you. The neoliberal or liberal part is the ‘they choose to wear it’ argument. That’s often made in relation to other forms of oppression such as sex work or unpaid care.

Anyway hope that clarified some things.

There is a fair bit of grooming that goes on. Many female athletes marry their coaches, often with a substantial age gap. They are trained from a very young age and some have spoken out about misogyny at an older age.

www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-5157511/Sexual-abuse-sports-notorious-cases.html

Apologies for the DM link. Mentions the gymnastics case among others.

Not saying that you can’t wear what you like. Just that there is systematic sexual abuse that goes on in many sports and women are overwhelmingly the victims. The skimpy uniforms are simply a part of the way the sport industry treats women.

I've been speaking mainly from my personal experience and that often fewer clothes is just easiest for competing. As I've said, I would be against any kind of sexing-up of sport to exploit women's sexuality and to attract more viewers. Whilst I do exercise myself I don't follow sport a lot so I don't know anything about the professional side of things and it's not the angle I was coming from, although I do know about the gymnastics team's abuse but don't see that has anything to do with the OP's questions about what athletes wear.
Apology accepted, we're good, it simply strikes a chord with me as I get sick of being harassed by men when I'm out running etc and they do it no matter what you wear too, but if I felt I could do it safely I'd run in pants in the summer. Have a good evening.

No worries.
I think professional sports are a world away from amateur sports. Many of these women have little actual control over what they wear. Their coaches will often tell them what to wear and if they are also involved in a sexual relationship with them, it gets even more complex. Things are better in the UK I think, but in many poorer countries, these women have effectively been groomed from a young age. They are from poor backgrounds and cannot just leave if they don’t like it. The sports industry as a whole gives men a lot of access to vulnerable women. The uniforms for eg gymnastics or beach volleyball are so high-cut that they require women to have all their pubic hair waxed off as it would show otherwise. There is no need for that.
But in amateur sports, of course people should be free to wear exactly what they like and nobody should get harassed for wearing a certain outfit.

Been thinking, not a quick process for me, thanks for the replies. SO I now think there are two questions , the first about whether the clothing is a genuine choice or part of the objectification of women...someone expressed it much better than I , thanks, which is where the question why is it different to men comes from

There is also another question about how we view bodies. Dh has not seen many naked females , we have never even done a bikini beach holiday, and he sees nakedness as something private , which is probably why he feels uncomfortable - he will avert his eyes from a breastfeeding lady , ( but has been annoyed when people object to public breastfeeding before any assumptions are made)

Stefanie Marsh in the Times did a story a few years back on the rise in popularity of cheerleading in the UK. She found it odd, but thought it was for girls who were looking for an activity they could take part in that also enabled them to stay as part of the crowd.

Anyway, UK cheerleading outfits are more modest than the American versions and are not skintight, figure hugging etc (though I suppose it's less about running for long periods of time as with other athletic gear).

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the sponsorship/fashion element of it. It's in the interest of the sponsor that their garments look good (which loose/frumpy clothing generally doesn't) and the obvious benefit for the individual being sponsored is shedloads of money.

I remember reading for example that Anna Kournikova used to make more money from sponsorship than her prize winnings, and she was definitely one to 'flaunt it'.

I’ve always wondered why female gymnasts have to wear tiny leotards that show half their asses off (and make-up, and sparkly hairspray) when the men are just fine in a vest and shorts. It’s such bullshit.

Yes the sponsorship issue is a big point. Even those who don’t have sponsorship need to maximise their chances of getting it. The idea that it’s a totally free choice and that these are simply the best outfits for performing that particular sports is no different to saying that sex work is just a career option (and totally avoids confronting why men and women are treated so differently in that particular context).
Gymnastics is particularly disturbing because the competitors are so very young, and it’s only years later when horror-stories like the US coach-abuse comes out. Overall, the skimpy costumes contribute to women being objectified and mistreated in sport. It’s by no means the sole reason why it happens, but it sure as hell doesn’t help empower them.

Of course people’s ‘choices’ aren’t made in a vacuum and there’s nothing wrong with discussing that. Daft to suggest otherwise.

Why on earth is it their responsibility to "teach men" ???

I do think some costumes have been sexualised for some sports where being decorative is part of the sport. But I actually think with the sports that show off the most flesh there must be a reason for it. Running women wear the smallest amount of clothes and if you're competing in the Olympics after training your entire life you're not going to wear something that wasn't designed within an inch of its life to get you across the line fastest just so you look slightly sexier crossing it. Even in cases where there is abuse behind the scenes, it just wouldn't make sense. The coach wants them to win. it's a uniform.

Surely if there was a performance issue, men would dress the same.

Men don't wear bras and I bet most women would find running a bit of an issue without one. Almost like the bodies are different.

True about the design to win. Although the fact that male athletes wear different things suggests that maybe wearing what is essentially a bra and knickers isn’t vital to running fast. Tbh, I think it’s now extremely ingrained. That is what a running outfit looks like and female athletes just wear it. However, on a structural level, I think it works to disempower them, just as a lot of female clothing does. Doesn’t mean everyone wearing it is being abused or anything. I just meant that overall, sports is a man’s world and it’s definitely not offensive to question how some of the traditions and customs have evolved. In fact, feminists should question it.

If a woman with breasts and very little belly fat wore a loose shirt to fit her breasts it would be massive on her stomach. Women's bodies are different to men. Men don't carry much fat in their thighs and their hips are different. (not my pic but was googling thigh gap!). I'm prepared to believe they wouldn't for a second wear anything that was even slightly less than perfect for their bodies.

In fact, feminists should question it.

No doubt, but when the question is actually coming from a man saying that women who want respect should dress a certain way it should get in the world.

Additionally, I'm not sure it's a bad thing for people to see a woman sweaty and covered in muscles. (the one in the pic has like a 40 pack). Maybe for once we could focus less on the male gaze and more on the little girl's gaze. What does she when she sees the woman in the picture.

With beach volleyball I know for a fact that the uniforms were changed across board to make watching more ‚attractive‘ some athletes complained, it was maybe 10 years ago). I think there were similar issues with soccer uniforms ? I don‘t rule out there can be functional reasons for some sports (skiing, male and female suits are tight) but regarding soccer, volleyball, tennis... if you have this type of ‚tight, revealing outfits’ it is clearly a matter of attracting fans and sponsors imo. I wish it wasn‘t.

Frumpy why not a close-fitting top that doesn’t expose the stomach? Why not a pair of shorts that aren’t so high cut? I guess next you will say that netball skirts are designed to produce absolutely optimum performance too?

You're right, all those women who are running and training for their whole lives are just trying to be hot. Quite often they don't even make it across the finish line before they start posing and pouting. You're definitely way more feminist than the rest of us for telling women they don't actually like sport.

To ‘teach men’ to respect women is not our responsibility. Women athletes can wear what the hell they want without needing to worry about what men think of them. Any more than women who are raped are to blame for inviting it by the clothing they were wearing.

Women athletes can wear what the hell they want without needing to worry about what men think of them.

That is how it should be, but not always how it is. As soon as you go the route of team sports there is pressure from sponsors and sports organizations to make the uniforms 'hot'.

Isn’t that an issue for men though, not for women? So what if men find what we’re wearing ‘hot’? My point is that it’s not women’s responsibility to have regard to men’s reactions/attitudes/opinions of us when we decide what to wear.

Frumpy are you being deliberately obtuse? Did you not read my posts? I am talking about the way that the sports and athletics industry degrades and devalues women. Part of that is constumes or uniforms that are quite different to men’s in terms of how much skin is exposed. That helps to contribute to women’s lower status in sports. I am not saying that women choose these outfits to be hot or anything like that. The whole discussion about choice is unhelpful when talking about oppression. Read some of my above posts and then see whether you think I was saying what you seem to think I was.

Isn’t that an issue for men though, not for women?

You think it isn't an issue for a female athlethe when she is forced to dress in ways she herself considers uncomfortably revealing while making sports, because it apparently not her performance but her body that is meant to attract attention?

I am speechless.