Little Owen in legal trouble?

[AspieAndProud]

I haven’t been following OJ’s defence of Jeremy Corbyn’s antisemitism but his threat to sue if Joe Maugham doesn’t pay £250 to both Live Not Hate and Jewdas because of criticisms Maugham made about Jones looks like extortion to me.

Jo Maughum is coming under more fire by a trans activist today

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1065517755661787136

Good. Let's hope it stiffens his resolve and sharpens his thinking in this area. He let himself be rolled over before although he clearly is smart enough to know, if he cared to know, that this is an ideology akin to magical thinking.

Love it when the TRAs do our work for us.

When he capitulated so readily on the JJ crowdfunder, JM painted a huge target on his back.

It was only a matter of time before they came after him again.

They have to make an example of him in order to deter others from speaking out.

Jonny's responded and Jo M is very careful not to disavow stonewall

Jonathan Best
@JonnnyBest
The role of @stonewalluk in legitimising this sort of activist behaviour is vital. www.stonewall.org.uk/stonewall-stories-category/come-out-lgbt/our-work-trans-equality-heart-our-mission-acceptance

Jo Maugham QC
‏*@JolyonMaugham*
Replying to @JonnnyBest @stonewalluk
I'd be very slow to criticise Stonewall as a bad-faith actor; it's an organisation I like very much. Its statement is a bit absolutist but it has a role to play. When I talked about a "process" I had in mind a process to resolve what Stonewall calls a "conflict" 1/2

and which I envisaged would ultimately find a resolution that I would hope Stonewall would feel comfortable with. I can't really say more but I have a close, direct, personal stake in both 'sides' (if we must call them that) of this debate. 2/2

Crap response. We all have close personal stakes if by that we mean either are gay or know and love a gay person, are a woman or know and love a woman or are trans or know and love a trans person. None of this makes anyone speshul or speshully sensitive and empathic which is what he is implying about himself.

Yeah, bullshit from Jolyon.

My relative/friend is trans and is nice plus I like them so shut the fuck up women and lose your rights seems to be very common.

I think not, Jolyon, I think not.

Odd contribution from Adam Wagner in there - the chap about whose response to the GRA consultation produced this from Lady Justice:

twitter.com/RadFemLawyer/status/1052554369709826049

Wagner's comment:

I have been told this also, that even speaking of ‘balance of rights’ is transphobic. In which case, the courts have been adopting a transphobic approach in cases about trans people.

Still going

Jo Maugham QC
@JolyonMaugham
You have to have real difficulty hearing or valuing the opinions of those, often CIS women, who feel threatened by the nature or tenor of how some put the case for trans rights to be unable to acknowledge that what I said is true.

Tania
@ziggy7
You have already been asked, but can I request again that you refrain from using ‘cis’. To accept ‘cis’ requires a belief in a ‘gender identity’, for which there is no proof. It is very offensive to most women.

Jo Maugham QC
@JolyonMaugham
If you're asking me to indicate by my choice of language that only those born women are women I can't do that. If your objection is something else I would say that to participate in the debate I either need to use "cis" or some other word to refer to women who are born women.

Just 'women' will do, love.

I thought just women will do too... but he's trying to walk the fine line.
It doesn't work like that though does it?
He's branded a transphobic regardless. Because no debate.

If only there was a word for "women who were born women" But don't worry, you can still protect the rights of those people without a word for them.

in the debate I either need to use "cis" or some other word to refer to women who are born women

I think it should be women

But if he is finding it a little difficult to use just the one word then whats wrong with 'born women' dreadful grammatically but certainly no worse than cis

Or natal women, or womyn....

He just found out how deep the rabbit hole goes, so he’s desperately trying to swallow the blue pill so he can wake up safe in his bed

So, JM has managed, unsurprisingly, to hack off both sides of this linguistic discussion. He's experienced enough to have foreseen this, so I have little sympathy.

He would not bow the neck to an oppressor on another issue yet he's doing it here. Perhaps unfairly, I have the whiff of male privilege calling and ceding to male privilege here because it only involves throwing women under the bus and ceding us as a category with a protected characteristic.

JM: "I don't think (except very occasionally) the debate is about biological sex".....what on earth does he think the debate is about if he doesn't think it is about the rights of people who are the biological sex female ??

JM is turning out to be disappointingly thick.

On the plus side for me personally, I always had such misplaced awe of people in certain positions. I made The false assumption that they must be so much more intellectually superior to me but this (and other) public debates recently have reminded me that being a minimum wage earning mum doesn't mean that I am intellectually inferior.

What a dick that man is. Happy to get involved to show how clever he is even though his understanding is shallow and its shallowness is not reflected upon. It doesn't give me much faith in his abilities as a barrister to master a brief.

I think those kinds of contributions can often work against gender critical arguments.

On the plus side for me personally, I always had such misplaced awe of people in certain positions. I made The false assumption that they must be so much more intellectually superior to me but this (and other) public debates recently have reminded me that being a minimum wage earning mum doesn't mean that I am intellectually inferior.

Damn right it doesn’t.

Not having a ‘proper’ education doesn’t mean someone is ignorant. And believe me, there are plenty of people in academia who wouldnt survive two minutes in the wild the real world.

I think it's easy to be clever and not have any critical thinking skills.

It's particularly easy to be academic and not have any critical thinking skills as Sally Hines showed us. You do have to have capacity for data and ability to organise data but you don't have to have any critical faculties at all.

What I like about Jonny Best's tweets for example is that they are critical and sceptical, in the best way. He's happy to chase the thread of an idea wherever it logically takes him and then retrace if it proves to lead to a logically unsustainable position. Ditto Jane Clare Jones and Kathleen Stock obviously.

Jolyon is showing us he has ideas and follows them to tricky places....and then stops there because he can't go forward and he won't go back. And then throws some nice lefty bloke word bombs around in the hope it will cover up the logical gap.

I think he sees himself as the honest broker between "lessers" who just can't control themselves.

Also: typical man. He can't conceive outside of Default Man being the human exemplar and genuinely feels perfectly entitled to adjudicate what rights women might have. They're just another subset of Non Man after all.

So, I'll say again: fuck right off, Jolyon.

I think he sees himself as the honest broker between "lessers" who just can't control themselves.

I'd think better of him if he took a beat and asked, from a position of appropriate humility, to have a chat with Jane Clare Jones, Kathleen Stock, or someone else so that he might learn why cis is wholly inappropriate and, by default, cedes so much.

He’s conceded that natal woman is a better term and will “try and use” it

It's just woman, Jolyon. Naming me is not in your bloody purview, you arse. If you can't manage that then you can still fuck off.

I think he sees himself as the honest broker between "lessers" who just can't control themselves.

It's the old Judgement of Solomon that self important men are wont to do with this issue.

"Natal woman" is a red flag for hostility according to Dr H twitter.com/DrAdrianHarrop/status/1065719533091082240?s=19