A solution to gender vs sex

[Randomusername01]

If it is agreed that gender is different from sex and gender is a spectrum and sex is a biological fact why can't both be put on birth certificates? Sex recorded as it is now, either male or female and can only be changed in exceptional cases and upon medical proof I.e. a dsd as found in intersex people. Gender could be recorded as matching the birth sex but easily changed once a person reaches adulthood at 16 for a nominal fee to cover admin costs. Sex characteristics are protected and gender identity is recognised.

I wouldn't care if there were a separate field for gender, as long as the default entry for gender is 'none' instead of assuming that all males identify with masculine gender stereotypes and all females with feminine. Because that's sexist and insulting. If it's that important to someone that they want theirs recorded, fine, but making that assumption about the rest of us is wrong.

I think gender is oppressive bullshit so mine would be staying 'none' forever.

Organisations are supposed to monitor equal opportunities for all the protected characteristics.

And yet the staff survey I completed last week didn’t include sex, only gender, and my employer is the government, the largest employer in the UK.

According to this link you don't have to record any details about the characteristics of people working for you (except in Northern Ireland for reasons specific to NI).

No, don't HAVE to but they SHOULD to be able to monitor equal opportunities.

www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4071

@jellyfizz, you have the right idea, gender completely uncoupled from sex. So sex based protections can continue to be sex based protections. But since transpeople are claiming that correctly sexing humans would eradicate them, then giving the option for gender allows for the to be acknowledged. Gender could also be a protected characteristic but not at the cost of single sex spaces etc. So a transman would legally be recorded as the right sex (woman) and a transwoman (man) and then their gender could be whatever they identified as. I think the option of gender none could also be available for people who didnt prescribe to the gender theory. Id probably pick none or female, I dont think I'd be that bothered about it as it would be meaningless to me. On what basis would transpeople object to that? Unless they are arguing that biological sex is changeable, in which case we will probably need someone to set precedent?

And yet the staff survey I completed last week didn’t include sex, only gender, and my employer is the government, the largest employer in the UK.

That's really shit. The public sector have a duty to record this.
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/public-sector-equality-duty (this linked web site seems to have conflated sex and gender too though).

But what purpose would the information about gender serve if nobody knows what it means?

Are you just collecting it to humour people?

On what basis would transpeople object to that?

Many transpeople, and certainly TRAs do not want their sex to be recorded or recognised at all. They would argue that stating that a transwoman is male would be 'denying their existence '. Some of them would also try to deny that sex is a material reality.

Are you just collecting it to humour people?

No, to respect beliefs and monitor discrimination which we are told is ridiculously high.

Many transpeople, and certainly TRAs do not want their sex to be recorded or recognised at all.

I'd like to not have periods or be discriminated against in employment because I have a body that gives birth.

I do think that it would be useful to collect data on gender, if only to look at the statistics of people who choose a gender.

TRAs are convinced that transwomen are no more dangerous than females. If we could analyse crime statistics by looking at the % of offenders who have a 'mismatch' between sex and gender vs those who don't, would that not help to answer questions?

I think sex will always be recorded at birth, I hope im not being naively optimistic in thinking this :D The general public can be informed about the differences between biological sex and gender identity. Its not a huge thing and could probably be summed up in about 500 words. If the government can swamp us with millions of data for brexit, it can educate the general public on sex vs gender. Maybe it ought to be doing that anyway.

MrsK, i think it would be great to collect statistical data on those who choose a gender not matching to their sex. Like offending patterns, suicide rates etc.

Logical though this would seem as making both the "sex matters" and "gender matters" camps happy, it would be considered transphobic for the reasons previous posters have raised.

I wouldn't object to a blank "gender" box that you can fill in yourself, rub out and fill in again as you feel.

But I don't think it would serve much purpose if it didn't affect what sex you were considered for legal reasons.

I don't think I will ever truly understand why the m/f marker on documentation is so important to trans people. Is it OK to say "trans people"?? I don't really want to say community, as I don't presume they all feel so strongly about it.

Validity seems such an odd thing to crave on the basis of gender, which isn't really anything to do with who you are as an individual. I'm still baffled by the whole thing. Although the "different, the same" line in the trans pride video spoke volumes.

it can educate the general public on sex vs gender. Maybe it ought to be doing that anyway.

As in educating the general public that gender is a concept that represses mostly women but also men and should not be reinforced??

Yes please to that.

Why don’t we have two sections on birth certificates. Sex. Then instead of gender put ‘conforms to 1950’s stereotypes of sex’ or doesn’t conform to 1050’s stereotypes of sex’

ID cards for those with a GRC, rather than the falsification of a document?

No ID card, no entry.

Controversial? No more controversial than issuing new so-called "birth" (sic) certificates.

The problem is persons with penises wanting access to womens spaces and women's rights.I think everyone else be pretty happy or non-fussed if that wasn't the overriding reason.

Essentially I think you need to have separate categories of Male, female, transgender and intersex. I am happy for trans people to be treated as a separate sex-class rather than messing around with identity. We also know that intersex people are not happy about being often coercively pushed into one of two binary categories. Obviously transgender cannot be recorded on the birth certificate and has to be achieved via a GRC. But by having a ‘sex-class’ of trans, you can move away from the unhelpful conflation of sex and gender and the constant cries of TWAW. So when you get a GRC, you become ‘transgender’ rather than the state pretending you were born the other sex.