My employer has invited Susie Green for a transgender inclusion event

[cornflakegirl]

We have a new Head of Diversity. He has invited Susie Green for a panel event at my office. The new "transitioning at work" policy will also be launched the same day. We're also partnering with Stonewall, so I can imagine what the policy is likely to say.

I'm willing to stand up as GC at work, but I also need to keep my job, so need to do it calmly and respectfully. Any advice on how to approach this?

if your Truely want to change things you will need to state your views.

Bespin You seem to be forgetting that the OP doesn't want to change things. She wants to keep the single sex toilets. What we are fighting for is for others not to make major changes without consulting us or even considering that we may be negatively affected by such changes.

If you want to change society it is up to you to prove that your changes will not adversely affect the rest of us - the majority.

It is indeed very telling how Bespin charges OP with wanting to change things. Talk about the old narcisstic adage of accusations being admissions...

then I can work to address them

Bespin, how about you accept that these are the views of some women that single sex, not single gender, is what remains necessary and work out how not to impinge on them?

Yes indeed - malign advice from Bespin and highly revealing too.

Could any local GC Mumsnetters stage a polite, calm demonstration outside your building with placards and invite the local press to come and interview them re Mermaids? Could be an excellent way of spinning the event and raising questions about SG.

In the days running up to the event you could quietly leave FPFW leaflets on everyone's desks and stuck to the back of doors in women's lavatories. I guess this would take guts but only you can know how monitored your workplace is and what the consequences might be for you.

On the day question any suggestion of policy change. Ask whether there has been an impact assessment carried out prior to any suggested changes: how would any change of policy affect the women (particularly minority ethnic women) and disabled people? If no impact assessment, why not?

Question, question, question — not from an anti-trans pov but from a pro-women one. Nothing against people dressing or presenting as they wish but you don't want anything that would impinge on women's protected rights under the EA, particularly private space...

Can you find one or two other GC people who would second you? Once you get three people standing up saying no, IME it gives others the courage to do likewise.

I'd have to bite my tongue bt allow the following out.

1. what qualifications and experience does she have, can you read any peer reviewed articles?

2. the equality act allows for discrimination on sex, this is because women as a sex are vulnerable and one place we are most vulnerable is when ussing the toilet. You understand that trans people may also be vulnerable eg if a man is having a period he may not be catred for adequately in the gent's toilet. If you have no one at work currently transitioning then surly the policy should be to discuss arangements when you have an employee who is, as different people have different needs. This is the approach you would take with a dissabled employee, or with an employee who becomes pregnant so why should trans be any different?

3. what do they think of the Karen White case? do not let them say that Karen is a man, Karen is, by stonewall's definition a trans women. If a trans woman assaults someone in your workplace how would it be handled? Transgender women have the same hormones, stregnth and violent criminal behaviour patterns as men.

4. As a feminist I want to see the end of gender stereotypes, how does / would a policy about transgender employees/customers impact on that.

I have been mulling this over and have decided that my stratagem would be to hardly engage with the trans part, assuming that your office doesn't have signficant numbers, if any people who wish to live their lives in a different gender to their natal sex. The whole thing smacks of virtue signalling.
I would focus very much on ensuring that sufficient regard is made for issues around sex, so managing periods, washing out mooncups etc. The right to single sex spaces enabling women of minority religions to access loos, what specific provision will be made for them to ensure they aren't loosing access to bathroom facilities.
So,we all want to be supportive of trans rights but we need to ensure that other vulnerable minorities aren't accidentally and illegally left excluded. Let's talk about how you are going to protect them if you are making changes.

It wasn’t that long ago on here that there were some good threads on here about the hooha about the problems that the change to mixed sex loos had had at the Foreign Office. Would definitely be worth digging out the threads and newspaper articles because there were all sorts of issues that those who introduced the change hadn’t anticipated including things like men not bothering to shut the door when having a pee, seats being left up, loos being left in a much yukkier condition than when just used by women, etc etc - nothing to do with trans, just the day to day differences that both sides hated.

The threads had links to similar examples. Plus there’s the Walmart study that found a significant increase in voyeurism etc

So have them to hand and maybe give to the head of diversity in advance - ‘so they can include strategies to ensure that none of these issues arise here (partly it means big changes in loo behaviour especially for men because they are not used to loos being such private places in the same way women do because they are used to using urinals. And urinals also don’t require such accurate aim. Etc etc)

Maybe also get her to clarify her terms before starting because you’re aware how they are bandied around so inaccurately and have led to confusion - so for example what her definition of a woman is - biological or ‘feeling like’ and why do transwomen have to be women, why can they not be transwomen? Oh and remember to point out that using ciswomen is incredibly demeaning and offensive to use when they should be using women.

Following on from this I would ask questions about the level of consultation that has been done with men to check that they have no issues with sharing their toilet space with women. I actually suspect that many of them may feel uncomfortable about this and they probably haven't been asked either.

I completely agree that the focus should be on women's rights, protection and dignity at work.

What benefits do mixed sex (don't let them try any gender neutral bollocks) have for women?
Have Andrew Gilligan's Times Article to hand which states that most sexual assaults take place in mixed sex spaces.

If we are talking business, I'd also have the Philip Bunce story up my sleeve for multiple arguments. How is he marginalised? Are cross dressers included? Say you're confused.

What are the plans re toilets? Surely it's easier to widen the bandwith for men. Make their toilets accessible for all.

We have mixed sex toilets at work and I don't go OP. Men leave seats up, piss over the floor, don't use toilet brushes and pee with door open. The toilets stink.

Stonewall and Mermaids love to roll out faux suicide stats out for young trans people. Have the GIDS figures to hand and say the 48 per cent figure quoted has been debunked.