My employer has invited Susie Green for a transgender inclusion event

[cornflakegirl]

We have a new Head of Diversity. He has invited Susie Green for a panel event at my office. The new "transitioning at work" policy will also be launched the same day. We're also partnering with Stonewall, so I can imagine what the policy is likely to say.

I'm willing to stand up as GC at work, but I also need to keep my job, so need to do it calmly and respectfully. Any advice on how to approach this?

I wouldn’t be surprised if SG is aware of this thread and following it closely.

Why am I seeing companies bending over backwards to do this sort of thing but not for inclusion for, say disabled employees?

I remember something years ago at a firm I worked for for people with asbergers, as we used to have people on work experience from a charity. This was when this was the 'issue' that was very talked about.

What numbers are we talking about here - or is it just a major PR campaign?

I would ask what analysis her charity is doing on the massive uptick in young girls thinking they are trans.
All that money mermaids receives, surely they spend some on understanding the root cause of the issue they exist to support.
Or is there a conflict of interest...because the more trans kids the more referrals and the more funding, etc

I would be very interested to know what on earth she is doing giving a talk at your workplace in the first place as it is sounds to be highly inappropriate given her background.
Is this how she makes her money now?

And I agree with Badmoonsarising

In talking to this man (and any other men) about single sex and/or mixed-sex toilets (and each and every time they use the word 'gender', say "You mean sex), I'd ramp up the discussion about periods, etc - I'd get more and more explicit about why we need single-sex toilets for women (as well as the faith/ethnicity issues others have mentioned).

You might want to re- read your contract of employment before saying anything

What has been counter productive to the Feminists agenda is the mocking Video on Youtube , of Susie Green and Mermaids

that appears Nasty, Personal , and Bullying

What some random person uploads to YouTube has nothing to do with this thread.

It may be worth mentioning to your employer that the proportion of women who have been sexually assaulted (around 1 in 5 in the UK, apparently) is very much higher than the proportion of 'women who are male' (well under 1%).

Is he planning on keeping any actual single-sex provision for those women, or just making them get their pants off in mixed-sex facilities?

I'm surprised that they are paying someone so controversial on to blether on. Not only be sure she is a self appointed expert who knows about her kids experience (built a career in it) and I'd imagine not a lot about business, HR, compant law...

Better hide the pink post it notes and highlighters.

Lots of good advice here, I'm not sure which one would work best for your coworkers. Sounds like your new boss is very TransKoolAid so you'd have to tread carefully there. I would start talking to your coworkers, and expose them to gender critical thought.

This is where it's important to determine, which of all the gender critical arguments are the most effective at quickly persuading people to at least listen to additional arguments with an open mind. The first argument you use needs to be so good that they won't immediately shout you down as a "bigot" and stick their fingers in their ears.

I personally always start with the one about sexual boundaries -- women have the right to set our own sexual boundaries and this includes who I disrobe in front of and who I allow to disrobe in front of me. I am VERY precise in my language and VERY confident in my body language when using this argument, I am NOT waffling my speech, or shuffling around as if I'm still not sure if daddy has given me permission to have these thoughts .

The other one you need to use for sure, since Suzie is huge on emotional manipulation, is pointing out that the suicide stats she uses are completely wrong.

ONE PERCENT!!

ww.thetimes.co.uk/article/suicides-should-never-be-a-political-weapon-w0jlhn5v0 by Janice Turner
Suicide is a dark trope in the trans movement. Parents who hesitate over medical intervention are told by some activists: “Better a living daughter than a dead son.” The ITV drama Butterfly, an infomercial for the trans support group Mermaids, is based upon the story of its CEO Susie Green, who took her child to Thailand for genital surgery at 16 (which was illegal in Britain and is now illegal in Thailand) and features a graphic suicide attempt. Mermaids cites high suicide rates in trans youth to push for faster, younger access to hormones and surgery. Ms Green told MPs that Gids (the NHS’s youth gender identity development service) has a suicide attempt rate of 48 per cent. This was based upon a self-selecting sample of 27 trans people aged under 26 analysed by the LGBT charity Pace.

The sane, compassionate response is more research. Let’s pull out the serious case reviews of every teen suicide to examine all possible causes, including newspaper reporting. Surely Mermaids would welcome proper, independent methodologically-sound scientific inquiry. In the meantime, the most reliable source is Gids which says of 5,000 young patients referred between 2016 and August this year, there were three suicides and four attempts. Each death is the deepest tragedy, yet this makes a suicide rate of less than 1 per cent. Moreover, Gids director Dr Polly Carmichael has warned that suicidal discourse is “quite unhelpful”, creating a narrative around gender-diverse children “imbued with negativity and lack of resilience.”

As an excuse to dripfeed this idea into their heads, the next day I'd give everyone a printed copy of that. Also include this bit:

people who have had transition surgery are 19 times more likely than average to die by suicide. journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

You could also include this one if you feel it's safe (ie that they wont' try to murder you on the spot). Tbh though, once they do lose their shit they look pretty insane and then most bystanders experience peaktrans, so honestly it's a good thing.

TIES TO PEDOPHELIA

www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-
core/content/view/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E/S1758320900012695a.pdf/gender_reassignment_5_years_of_referrals_in_oxfordshire.

In Oxfordshire, over a 5 year up to 2010, out of 38 males, a small number of these males approached the NHS gender transition services;"seeking gender reassignment to facilitate or normalise paedophilia. This latter small group described gender reassignment as a means by which to increase their intimate contact with children, which they viewed to be more socially acceptable in a female role"

Explain that you've been taking an interest in football and diy recently and how does she suggest you proceed.

yes, you might ask exactly how much DIY would indicate a need to transition

thing is you don't know what is going to be said so I think you need a few different options prepared
I think asking what is included as TG is a good possibility (follow up question- so what about cross dressers?)
be prepared to challenge the suicide myth if that is talked about
practise talking about what happens in toilets... all the blood and guts
also, consider that SG may have read this

Why does Susie Green and Mermaids champion a doctor who has been disciplined over unethical practice. I believe Helen Webberley is due to find out the latest punishment tomorrow.

How much checking to Stonewall and Mermaids and what's going on there, is there?

To whom are they really accountable in any meaningful sense?

Arranging to take your kid abroad for medical treatment not allowed in the UK, is not someone we should be putting on a pedestal as a hero.

You could raise one question to Susie Green: "How will you feel in ten years time when your adult child resents you for allowing her to have puberty blockers at an age where she was not competent to make such life changing decisions". Then sit down and take the applause.

Personally I'd go off sick on that day.

Really excellent suggestions here.
However, while I totally agree with the emphasis on women of various faith backgrounds who require same sex facilities, I am glad the needs of women as women (menstruating, miscarrying) have been mentioned. Women do biological things in toilets that men do not.

I am also glad that women who have suffered sexual trauma, assault or rape have been mentioned. I left my marriage (coercive control and sexual abuse/rape) and honestly, there were times when I could not cope with the conflict in meetings and needed to use the bathrooms as a safe space to recover my composure.

But more importantly, for me, the link with sexual assault/rape/abuse is the erosion and violation of consent. Women have the legal right to say no to having their bodily intergrity violated. Where do the boundaries around women’s bodies begin and end? We are moving from a position where you could put a solid door (the bathroom) and a cubicle around you to go to the loo in public space and be assured of privacy from male-bodied people, to one where you have just a wall which may not go floor to ceiling, and the bathroom (often small or narrow) is shared.

So the space around women, which helped maintain bodily integrity and dignity, and the ability to move in public space is shrinking - for all women, regardless of religion, past reproductive or abuse history. Any and all women should be able to say no to this, without fear, or needing to come up with extra reasons.

Where I work, they have added in ‘gender neutral’ toilets whilst retaining same sex ones. On one floor, they have used the female bathrooms for this. Elsewhere, they have merged the previous male and female bathrooms into one space with individual cubicles - hate these ones. But there are also same sex bathrooms, so there are a mix of options (and more same sex, to be honest). So I feel that the balance is about right and I just avoid the ones I don’t like.

please OP go to the event, and make your views known on this subject. I would support you 100% on doing that don't hold back on it state your beleifs. if your Truely want to change things you will need to state your views. I am tired of people being on here telling people they should do something but then in reality not, I'd rather face this head on if I worked with you i would want to know your views because then I can work to address them.

OP in all seriousness if you rely on your income and career, be very, very careful what you say. We are not safe to speak openly about these matters.

Bespin how exactly would you “work to address them”? Would you try to understand her concerns or are you thinking more about “re-education”?

I'd ask why a controversial charity (with links to a discredited doctor) that lobbies for trans children is (being paid for) addressing a business.

I'd ask how much they were paying and who decided that this was a good use of company money. Have they been told that they need to do this? Have they been told lies about the law (very common)?

adulthumanandtired pointing out that sex is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010 and gender is not (only gender reassignment is, and not even that trumps sex) can hardly be a career threatening move.
This idea that the Equality Act 2010 is somehow meaningless and saying it isn‘t risks Job loss, just because stonewall and mermaids don‘t like it, is patently absurd.

Explain that you've been taking an interest in football and diy recently and how does she suggest you proceed.



That was supposed to be a grin emoji under that copied post, my emojis seem variable. It might be back by the time I've posted this and then I'll look even more stupid.