My employer has invited Susie Green for a transgender inclusion event

[cornflakegirl]

We have a new Head of Diversity. He has invited Susie Green for a panel event at my office. The new "transitioning at work" policy will also be launched the same day. We're also partnering with Stonewall, so I can imagine what the policy is likely to say.

I'm willing to stand up as GC at work, but I also need to keep my job, so need to do it calmly and respectfully. Any advice on how to approach this?

Or adk why the company is moving ahead of the law with self ID when it is still the subject of a government consultation

Stop your fucking keyboard warrior shit

Aren't you rather being a "keyboard warrior" here?

ignore, sisters, ignore!

I wouldnt worry about the event, it is for show. I would focus on the policies.
Highlight the need for single sex toilets to enable access to toilets for natal women of different religious beliefs.
If people have to give up single sex space suggest that it is men who do this for above reason. Highlight the difference between sex and gender and the law in relation to this.
Are there any other problematic issues he is highlighting?
Personally I would try and take the stance of the recent guardian article of competing rights and responsibilities. Coming across as just anti is likely to just get you labelled.

I'd draw attention to the connection between Mermaids and Helen Webberley.
Plus that Mermaids staff have been caught asking for people to be hacked on twitter and have engaged in targeted harassment.

Dr Helen Webberley is awaiting sentencing tomorrow:
"Healthcare Inspectorate Wales prosecutes online GP
Published 5 Oct 2018
HIW has today successfully prosecuted Online GP Services Ltd and Dr Helen Webberley for illegally providing online healthcare services which require registration under the Care Standards Act 2000

The prosecution follows a period in which Dr Webberley had refused to stop providing services to patients. As a result, HIW proceeded with criminal action against Online GP Services Ltd and Dr Webberley for operating a service without being registered under Section 11 of the Care Standards Act 2000.

Both Online GP Services Ltd and Dr Webberley were found guilty at Merthyr Magistrates court today. Sentencing will take place on 2 November 2018." (continues)
hiw.org.uk/news/onlinegpprosecution?lang=en
thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3385789-Helen-Webberley-found-guilty

Mermaids are still promoting Dr Webberley on their website:
www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/resources-for-professionals.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45767360

If your company employs women of different religions the gendering of toilets (instead of by sex) will be an exclusive policy not inclusive.

Mermaids comment from recommendations link above:

"GenderGp - Helen Webberly
Provider of private health care for transgender patients based in Abergavenny, but also working through video conferencing. Prospective patients may want to know that, in Oct 2018, Health Inspectorate Wales successfully proceeded with criminal action. Both Online GP Services Ltd and Dr Webberley were found guilty at Merthyr Magistrates court. Sentencing will take place on 2 November 2018.
hiw.org.uk/news/onlinegpprosecution?lang=en
To review Helen's response: gendergp.co.uk/update-health-inspectorate-wales-decision/ "

I’d ask about the policy on sex equality.
And also ask about the policy on involving children in this.
Don’t give your opinion but make it clear that if they mention children they will look extremely dodgy.
You can have a trans inclusionary policy without involving mermaids!!

Absolutely suggest that the male toilets become gender neutral and the women’s remain women’s. I would actually discuss why - women need sex segregated spaces to deal with menstruatiin. And I would raise the recent report highlighting that assaults are more prevalent in mixed sex facilities.
If the men jump up and down that they don’t want women in their spaces, it’s much easier to ask why women don’t have right to say no.
My workplace gym has a women’s toilets and gender neutral toilets, women’s changing rooms, and men’s changing rooms, and there is a third gender neutral room that can be used.
I think the main point to get over is to ask why your employer is considering erasing women’s rights.
The men’s can be gender neutral. Job done.

senua - brilliant, I will suggest a consultation, thank you

plaidlife - I agree that the event is irrelevant. I'll probably go along just because I'm interested to hear what she has to say. The policy is the important thing.

Dear Pinky's post caused me to think.

I would be genuinely interested in hearing SG speak.

Hers is an individual experience. Transgenderism is so much broader. I would be interested in whether she sees gender dysphora as no different from AGP etc. What she thinks of SelfID and whether she has concerns for her own daughters, ie safeguarding, safe sport etc. And does she really share a loo with the blokes in office.

(In one office I worked in male colleagues would complain that the mad keen cyclist would strip off his lycra and sponge himself down whilst bollock naked. Joke was that he only had to cycle a couple of miles. I did the same distance on a Boris Bike. A female space is important.)

I understand, though dont agree with, the Mermaids approach but would be interested in how they advise very disturbed children with several things going on.

In short, to what extent has she drunk the Stonewall Koolaid and why.

It is a muti faceted issue and concerns of people on this board vary. There is no obvious reason why SG should support SelfID, unless she has ambitions for a career in the wider TG industry

Work place Equality and Inclusion policies will be based on Equality Act 2010. There are 9 protected characteristics. Sex is one, gender reassignment another.
Gender and Gender identity are not protected characteristics and policies which refer to them as such are misrepresenting legislation.

Many policies are incorrect and this most likely has happened in good faith by useing templates from trusted sources.

Recent threads where policies discussed including charities, businesses, clubs & schools:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3404539-Major-childrens-charity-Stonewall-Mermaids-and-gender
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3405925-I-came-across-my-companys-trans-policy
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410237-Help-please-club-constitution

I have to approach my own employer about removed sex as a protected characteristic, and my union. What are they going to do, sack me? Obviously I'll be raising i

.. the process, and it will take a lot more than one email. So what if they don't like me for it.

The best thing to do is play dumb. Ask them to explain the logic to you and watch it fall apart in front of their own eyes...

Can you do some research on the guy in charge of this policy? I would want to know who his allegiances are and also find myself, quite by accident of course, discussing these issues with a few people in HR, and go has high up as you can with your concerns. They all need to be reminded that any policy changes don't happen in a vacuum so the impacts on all employees need to be considered - and also a few pointed reminders about the equality act exemptions based on sex as a protected characteristic.

And thinking about this I now have the rage that it's falling in you to defend your sex based rights at work.

The involvement of Susie Green is pinging things for me. Perhaps a personal connection as her organisation not a great fit if no children involved.

Need wouldn't SG simply deny the existence of AGP?

R0wantrees - thank you, will take a look.

Erishkigal - it is odd.

It is extremely odd for an employer to bring in an organisation that advises parents and children. I don't want my employer presenting partisan and controversial parenting gurus to me at work, and I most definitely don't expect to be presented with this parenting advice in a way that implies the view of this organisation are part of my employment terms and conditions.

What on earth are they doing? Over stepping the mark I think and I am surprised it is happening. Would they bring in Save the Children to advise on diversity polices for adults at work or Barnardos?

Heads of D&I are underemployed in organisations, there really isn't enough for them to do, this is all misguided make work.

I would tell my manager that I dont expect to be told I have to follow a controversial parenting organisation's advice AT WORK, and I don't expect to be told I have to believe these dangerous and unsubstantiated myths by MY EMPLOYER.

I've just listened to Susie Green's Ted Talk, thanks to the PP. Her daughter clearly seems happier and appears to have genuine gender dysphoria. However, despite the early part of the talk (could be a boy who just prefers "girly" things which one of my very male husbands did) she then goes into as does her DD to "girl brain in boys body". Which is not great. I know 99.9% of us would not abuse any child who was confused in their choices - I don't know where Susie's daughter was brought up but any parent abusing a child/teenager would have been swiftly reported to any school round here.

HOWEVER, OP I think, once checking out all your firm's policies and statistics on those who have genuine intersex natal problems and gender dysphoria and the proportion of transgender people , you should ask her

• what she advises the firm to do given they presumably can't and don't discriminate on hiring policies
• can she advise you on the difference between someone who is gender dysphoric like her daughter and someone who wants to self identify as a woman while remaining male
• does she see any difficulty with that - including the problem of women being uncomfortable or prohibited by religion from sharing space?
• depending on her response to the reforms she'd like to see - eg loos etc, why is it always the women who give way?

Clearly the GRA is about to be reformed, so this is a bit previous.

I think just listening at the event is fine - that's what i would do.

Consider what SG is saying in the light of your own expertise and policies at work. If she simply says 'there are people who are trans, it can start in childhood, here's my experience, good luck with your new policy' then going in 'acting naive' or v confrontational is not going to do anything but antagonise people. The aim shouldn't be to make everyone gender critical or to prosecute people who take boys overseas for genital mutilation, because that's not illegal. The aim should be to ensure compliance with the law and clarity in a policy, with a view to your own legal rights and work needs.

The policy will say that people can use the toilets of their preferred gender.

That discriminates against women who cannot use mixed sex spaces such as Muslim, Jewish, Sikh and Romany women, and against Muslim men during Ramadan.
It also discriminates against women who are menstruating, or experiencing a miscarriage.

Suggest they keep the women's single sex toilets and make one of the men's toilets unisex instead.