Jordan Peterson Interview with Helen Lewis

[rightreckoner]

here

It's long but I thought I'd give it a bit of a watch since I've heard so much about him. Initial thoughts are - he's not as clever as he thinks he is. Questions he doesn't like he closes down with a bait and switch answer or a terrifying Paddington stare. Comes across as a bit of a plonker. With absolutely no humour. Helen Lewis did a good job I think of not getting annoyed although he is so bullet proof there's almost no point in the discussion.

His basic thesis (if I understand it correctly) is that society is not shaped by the patriarchy but by competence. So the reason men are scientists and women look after babies is that they are better at these skills respectively. There is no such thing as the patriarchy.

There is a good bit at about 1.05.40 where she asks him why women change their names on marriage if not to symbolise their transfer from one man to another and he says - ugh, Margaret Atwood is an idiot.

@Sunnyroad I get the impression that English isn't your first language?

Lol, so we are told time and time again that Peterson doesn't attract sexists. And yet, further up the thread some guy uses the term 'feminazis'.

And in typical Peterson fanboy fashion, I bet he will respond that a) he was joking/being ironic or b) I 'misunderstood' him, somehow.

Incidentally, this is my biggest issue with Peterson. I'm an ex academic with a PhD - I know how to read. And yet most disagreement with Peterson's ideas is met with "well, you just didn't understand." I'm sorry, but if his ideas are that opaque then he's just not a good writer. I personally think that the whole 'you don't understand' line is a very handy way of not having to defend anything that he says.

@Wee I don't think Peterson really wants to appeal to people like you, ie the people who can see straight through him
His dog whistle is tuned to his fanbase

oh yeah - 'you didn't understand'

on one of the many previous occasions that we've had this discussion I've been told to go and use google when I asked for clarification

not the point of the chat site really?

Ah Sunny, my profound apologies. I believed you had joined our happy band to discuss this in a rational fashion, but I see you believe that "feminazis" are a thing.

You might want to do some research about who had the vote when and why, because your understanding of universal suffrage is sadly lacking. Or to quote your favourite demagogue, you just don't understand.

Staging debates with intellectuals is a piece of theatre that JP aims at his fanbase
It makes him look as if he belongs in the same category as intellectuals and thereby elevates his status in Their Eyes because, well even the very clever people can't understand him he's so clever !

it is ,but I'm statemented dyslexic, so any written word is difficult for me.

But feminazi is such a brilliant word to describe women who think everything is men's fault and love playing identity politics. People on here are starting to get very 'snarly', because I've queried their opinions, some even say Jordan Peterson isn't an intellectual.??? [femenazi's think he is so thick while they're so clever] But he is able to back up most of what he says by proper empirical research, much of done by left-wing social scientists. He's not saying anything new he's just articulating it so that ordinary people like myself can understand.But feminazi's who are in the grip of an extreme left ideology just cannot entertain a view contrary but are unable to back any up.I'm disputing the history of the suffragette movement,but what was the history of men and voting. How many people could read and write in the 1850's?Do you dispute that life was brutal, do you really think that men and women didn't pull together? Was your grandfather a Tyrant? You are not in my opinion taking a holistic view of how we in the West got to this privileged position.

should read.I'm not disputing the history of the suffragette's movement

feminazi's who are in the grip of an extreme left ideology

you don't have opinions ladies

you're in the grip of an ideology

also you probably have little gun barrels instead of nipples

that's how feminazis look in my head

Whenever I see the word feminazi I know I'm dealing with a man who hates women.

And I could hardly be a Feminazi since I have been married to a man I love for almost 20 years and have 2 DS who I also love - can't quite square that circle can they?

Someone using the word feminazi is simply telling women exactly who he is. I generally believe them when they tell me this.

But I do enjoy someone mansplaining my job to me, makes me feel so comforted and as if the status quo is being maintained.

Jordan Peterson always draws out some interesting characters

Again, somewhat indicative of the kinds of things I says I feel

so do you disagree with the evidence, that the more egalitarian a society becomes the more men and women choose conventional roles? That societies where women have less opportunity e.g middle eastern countries, women given the opportunity will choose to be an engineer.Or do you deny this?

according to an ex-colleague, your champion of empirical evidence believes his wife's dreams sometimes foretell the future

the return key still eludes you I see

Very few people had an opportunity to be an engineer of any kind until recently. It isn’t a conventional role for anyone.

also, how are we measuring egalitarian?

the domestic violence stats in the Scandinavia are horrible

it ain't no feminist paradise

Sunnyroad1: The Nazis engaged in the systematic genocide of six million Jews. They also sent gays, Gypsies, Jehovah’s Witnesses to the gas chambers. They initiated a world war that resulted in the deaths of many millions of people. Please don’t debase their memory by applying the word Nazi to a group of people fighting for social justice.

Futhermore, the nazi's closed all abortion clinics when they first came to power, while forcing Jewish women and women with cognitive disorders to have abortions. Nazi's and feminists are polar opposites of each other.

so do you disagree with the evidence, that the more egalitarian a society becomes the more men and women choose conventional roles?
What evidence?

also, how are we measuring egalitarian?
Exactly. We need to take account of exactly what those societies are like and what other options are open.

It's not enough for someone like JP to say Scandinavia is egalitarian and people choose conventional gender roles. What is it really like to be a woman in a male-dominated workplace in those countries? Is it any better than it is in the UK?

nothing is going to satisfy you. Women are always victims of men.That's your ideology in the face of facts, the more equal opportunities in society the more men and women choose conventional roles. The more unequal the society the more women will choose [given the choice} to be engineers. Studies over many countries over many years [25 yrs]over many thousands.But not good enough. Just can't be right can it.! Who know maybe more improvements can be made,but thats the data so far.Sorry if that offends you

hm, I'm not engaging with you sunnyroad but we've had less than 100 years of the vote, less than 50 years of equal pay legislation and you're trying to compare that to millennia of patriarchy? Come back to us in the year 3000 and we'll discuss progress.