These self obsessed people, where have they come from ?

[SirVixofVixHall]

This was in my email inbox this morning. Sigh. There have been other articles like this recently. The bullying undertone, the entitlement. This is someone “non binary”. So someone just like everyone else. Apart from the patronising hectoring tone, it is all so tedious. BORING, BORING, BORING. Must make for some very earnest and deathly dull parties. Where are all the wonderful GNC people with their interesting outfits, self deprecation and wit ? I know that this is from America, but stil.. Never mind generation snowflake, this is more generation dreary. No irony, no self awareness, no sense of humour.
Is this all down to identity politics ? Is this teaching ? Parenting? The product of a decadent and privileged environment ?

I feel despair at the environmental disasters looming, and what my daughters might be facing, yet there is a generation of people spending their time policing how others refer to them, when they aren’t even present.

I took my girls to visit a museum in a very studenty part of my old university town last week, and then into the city centre. I was absolutely struck by how fecking BORING they all were. All shades of grey, really monochrome dress, and not in an interesting way, either - not a goth in sight (that was truly sad)

I left uni in 1997 and noticed it creeping in even back then. My peers and the years above/below were as you say, goths, indie, hippy, jeans and band shirts, rugby tops, anything went.

My final year and the freshers turned up and it was as if someone had waved a girly glitter wand. We used to go to the library til late, stop at the offie for a bottle and were pissed by the time we got to the SU. This lot were all carefully made up, glossy long hair, nails painted, “dressed” for a night out. All in a uniform of girly skirt and sparkly tops, with heels, ffs. Dancing to boy band music and drinking wine spritzers and alcopops.

Students have become consumers rather than using their intelligence to challenge the status quo.

I've checked with DS2 whether his university student union emphasises the transgender agenda, apparently he hasn't noticed anything, if there is it's low key. Interestingly his student union is one of the small number not affiliated to the NUS. I wonder if there's a link?

I blame Rachel in Friends for starting the lookalike long hair cult.

Fgs long hair was a thing for girls and women in the 60s and 70s.

Whilst I agree this article is utter tripe I do think some of you need to take the rose- tinted glasses off about how wonderful everything was in whatever decade you were a teenager.

I don’t think anyone is saying that Lass. But it has been amazing to me how DD gets called a boy - weekly if not daily - for her shortish hair. There’s definitely been a change.

Fgs long hair was a thing for girls and women in the 60s and 70s

I had short hair in the 70’s. Occasionally someone redirected me to the boys toilets, not often, and only usually on holiday when my mother refused to let me wear my bikini top.

If i corrected them, i got “sorry love, my mistake”. Not the fucking obstinate refusal and complete insistence that no, you’re mistaken, you aren’t a girl because you have short hair, you’re a boy.

Back in the 70s, band were pretty GNC.

If you fancy a very deep wade in the waters of self-obsessed non-binary folk then I suggest perusing youtube for videos of people claiming to have dissociative identity disorder (formerly multiple personality disorder).

Most (not all) are young females who have male "alters" as part of their "system".

I just wanted to point out that the idea that the self can be both male and female is central to the controversial (and many would say iatrogenic) condition DID / MPD.

Another thing I find very interesting is that one of the main clinics for treating gender dysphoria The Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, has also, traditionally been one of the main sources of the promotion of DID/MPD as clinical diagnoses.

I am extremely concerned that certain notorious therapeutic interventions used with vulnerable people that them to believe they have DID alters ("parts" therapies) may be being used with teens and children with confusion and unease about their sex / gender identity.

Here are some examples that I think are worthy of sceptical, critical analysis

This young female is interesting

The "switch" from "host" to "alter" is the money shot in these kinds of videos and in the above video it allegedly occurs at about 20.58 when the captions helpfully point out that she is switching to an alter called Jake who is 6 years old.

Her youtube channel is extremely popular and I found it via youtube's recommended videos.

The above video was uploaded exactly 2 months ago and it has 1,806,571 views. It is being promoted by a controversial online therapy provider called BetterHelp.

Other videos of interest.

A female "host" who claims to have male alters

Another female host with a male alter
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=iNghHpaPQOY

A trans woman who claims to have DID with both male and female alters

A young male who claims to have a similar condition OSDD

I just thought that some of the poster here might be interested in reflecting about what it might mean that dissociative disorders, an extremely controversial field within mental health, is being heavily promoted by controversial organisations such as BetterHelp.

Also the feel of DID has changed since it was called Multiple Personality Disorder. People with MPD were usually older women often claiming to have been abused by satanic cults.

Here a quack psychiatrist, Colin Ross, lectures on DID and satanic ritual abuse

I am sceptical of satanic ritual abuse and I believe that DID / MPD and associated disorders are iatrogenic and created by bad therapy.

I am concerned that vulnerable young people are being treated by colleagues of Colin Ross and who share his insane beliefs, quack therapies and abusive practices.

I cannot pretend that I know all the answers about trans issues. I do not. I would not wish anyone to suffer because of overwhelming feelings of distress and confusion about sex and gender.

Apologies if this kind of material has been posted before. I could not find it anywhere on mumsnet and thought that some posters who are interested in transgender issues might find it helpful to learn more about the current fashion for DID videos on youtube.

oops
the first video is not of a female but a trans woman

it should have been this one

Back in the 70s, band were pretty GNC

I was 16 in 1975. I am perfectly aware of what the 70s were like. A few bands looked like Slade, many others were a sea of denim.

As for the poster lamenting how boring the attire in the studenty part of town- my recollection of my university days (1977-1981) is there was a small number of flamboyant dressers of both sexes in an ocean of dull jeans and desert boots.

Just been watching Sweet and dearest darling Marc Bolan on youtube. They were bloody brilliant and all very colourfully dressed.

If someone ever accused me of using the wrong pronouns I'd wait patiently until I got the chance to interject with "are you assuming my gender" and hope to keep a straight face.

It's all out of control fuckwittery.

I don’t have any illusions about the overt racism/sexism/homophobia of the 70’s and 80’s - but we were under the illusion that progress was being made. The shocking thing about the 2010’s is that in many ways society seems to be in reverse.

I can't help to think this is somehow all connected to the ELC/mothercare etc mobbing is all with their blue/pink gendered toy/clothing bullshit for a couple of decades, and so many people buying into it going "awe it's harmless/cute".

Like merrymouse says, you don't address someone as he/she/whatever when you are with them, you say 'you' or use their name. It's only when you are referring to them to someone else that you say he/she/it (or whatever xie/hir is supposed to mean). So how would they know what pronouns you have used? And why would you need to know the pronouns of a barista? You ask them for the type of coffee you want, they make it for you, you pay, say thank you and leave. Unless you are going to slip in 'sir' or 'madam' there's no need for it to be an issue. Maybe this all started in the 'sir/ma'am' states of the US.

I need to go to bed, I've had enough of today!

I suppose issuing your staff with pronoun badges is a cheeper way of signalling corporate wokeness than allowing them to join a union.

I really don't understand pronouns in a work situation. Face to face one will say "you".

He or she is used when the person isn't there- literally behind their back (I swear that if he manages to get this wrong again I can't be held responsible for what I'll do to him) or (she told me she'd been approached by an agency- we can't afford to lose her- give her an extra £5k)

Or by their initials

(During the review period ABC has maintained ABC's record of being almost, but not, completely useless. ABC's usual deviousness and low cunning unfortunately manages to save ABC getting into the zone where ABC can be sacked without the prospect of a costly tribunal payout)

(Disclaimer I have never actually said that in a staff appraisal)

I can't help to think this is somehow all connected to the ELC/mothercare etc mobbing is all with their blue/pink gendered toy/clothing bullshit for a couple of decades, and so many people buying into it going "awe it's harmless/cute".

My eldest is 12, with her I knew/hoped I'd have another so tended to get most things in a fairly neutral colour, especially the baby equipment. I don't recall there being such a focus on the pink/blue toys and it was possible to go to ELC and buy a toy in neutral colours.

When I had my youngest who is now 6, I had got rid of most things in a '2 is enough' clear out. I borrowed a lot of things, but the toys now on offer were very much blue or pink. It was at the time of the Pink Stinks campaign and I remember thinking 'but it is just a colour' She had a lot of pink clothes because I was given things and I wasn't going to refuse them.

It did annoy me a bit that choice was so restricted but not enough to be overly bothered by it, I wish I had been though.

But don't worry despite her early years of pinkness she has pretty much refused to wear a dress since she was 2 (other than a school dress) and lives in leggings. If I do get her in a dress she has to wear leggings underneath. Pulls out all her hair slides too.

Leapfrog and Vtech are incredibly bad for the pinkness. The original vtech baby walker was fab - then they changed it and made it all pink and flowers and butterflies.

I'm sometimes quite amazed at how identikit the women are now. There are some that look truly plastic.

Once there was a distinction between singers and actresses and nude models. Now it seems female celebrities are expected to be all three.

There are still originals out there. Ella Mai the Soul singer from London that just broke America in the past 12 months is very much herself and not exploiting her sexuality.

My eldest dd age 18 saw her when she toured the states last year and met her at a fan meet up, she loves her. She was living in Queens from the age of 12-17 as her mum is a teacher and she emigrated for work.

In the very early 80s when New Wave was huge and my DH was running around an American suburb on his scooter with green hair and pointy shoes, I was in London into soul and R&B and clubbing. I found Duran Duran and Spandeau Ballet pretty naff at the time! There were always alternative music styles.

Her album just came out this month and is huge, she is massive out here. People love her authentic style and raw talent and they are hungry for Soul singers.

Bloom the phone thing is very very hard. One thing to merrily state “no phones until 15” then you are faced with a devastated 12 year old whose every single friend has a phone meaning she is practically excluded from all interaction because thats how they communicate whether we like it or not

Wherever they came from, can we send them back? I'd be willing to chip in for a farewell gift basket.

Once there was a distinction between singers and actresses and nude models. Now it seems female celebrities are expected to be all three

That is a ridiculous comment and deeply insulting to many talented actresses and musicians. There is a whole world beyond Miley Cyrus and her like. Even a cursory glance at Jools Holland's Later show might enlighten you.