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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Poll: 52% of people consider a person who was born male and has male genitalia but identifies as a woman to be a man

158 replies

TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap · 24/10/2018 17:38

twitter.com/helenstaniland/status/1055128928174641153

Interesting results. It's a properly conducted opinion poll which Helen Staniland crowdfunded. I've got to go in a minute so can't post all the headline findings. Maybe somebody else could do that?

OP posts:
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deydododatdodontdeydo · 25/10/2018 15:01

So apart from the men (TW) that want to enter women's spaces, men don't want men to enter women's spaces, but women are more ok about that than men (but still mostly not ok).
I knew that most men weren't on board with this, but surprised that more women are.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 15:01

I suppose if you believe the above you can also promote the 'most oppressed in society' crap too.

Cos obviously its that simple.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 15:05

Correct deydododatdodontdeydo

Its almost as if women are taught to be nice to everyone more than men.

The one I find most surprising is that MEN are more bothered about those born men being in women's sport than women are.

You will find though from political advertising that the idea of 'being nice' and 'being fair' are well known - and have different effect along male/female lines.

These questions do expose that quite nicely.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/10/2018 15:06

I knew that most men weren't on board with this, but surprised that more women are.

I wonder if some of this might be a difference in sources of information? E.g. do women tend to watch more daytime TV - I don't, but I gather that some are pretty awash in Kool-Aid.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/10/2018 15:09

The one I find most surprising is that MEN are more bothered about those born men being in women's sport than women are.

Perhaps more men tend to take sports seriously than women?

catkind · 25/10/2018 15:10

I wonder how many of the people completing the survey as "women" were in fact TW. Was that asked?

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 15:12

Being nice is associated with left leaning whilst being fair is associated with right leaning too.

This isn't hard and fast - you'll see particular groups bombarded with one or another, to 'push them' in the right direction.

When you can see this, it opens your eyes a bit as to how others are trying to influence you just from phrasing rather than content.

I'm guessing the young are generally more susceptible to 'being nice' than being fair. But not always - it depends on what you are asking.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 15:14

I wonder how many of the people completing the survey as "women" were in fact TW. Was that asked?

My guess would be a) not asked b) nothing to stop anyone saying they were a woman when they were a TW anyway.

LangCleg · 25/10/2018 15:21

Its fascinating to see in the sports question that the idea of 'being nice' suddenly appears to be less important, because the idea of 'being fair' seems to be more important.

Red - I think you've hit on something important here. There's very definitely a degree of support among the youngest demographic to support a larger concept but it's soft - not just soft, it evaporates very strongly when faced with practical consequences.

I think this is very encouraging.

Ereshkigal · 25/10/2018 15:42

Barracker - thanks for those figures. It really is only a tiny minority.

Ereshkigal · 25/10/2018 15:43

We need to send this to every MP in the country.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 15:53

Langcleg, I'm a great believer that you have to see stats from a variety of angles. That includes scientific research. Rephrasing of a question or concept in a slightly different manner and then comparing the two often reveals an underlying bias or issue that's been neglected previously.

If you want to get to the heart of an issue or problem you need to be able to see it in 'three dimensions' rather than in a 'flat kind' of way.

'Being nice' can often be used to emotionally blackmail. Being fair can equally be manipulative and be rather cold hearted.

If you understand that the value that's more important to a group is one or another, you can pull their strings to a certain extent.

Personally I believe you should explore from both angles as it helps to remove that political manipulation and allow people to consider the idea more critically and freely.

Both being fair and being nice are important to how we all see society in different ways. If one or the other is neglected you risk a backlash, and the exploitation of that lack of compassion / sense of injustice.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 15:56

What is Impartiality?

What do you require to achieve impartiality? What is a threat to impartiality?

LangCleg · 25/10/2018 16:08

Both being fair and being nice are important to how we all see society in different ways. If one or the other is neglected you risk a backlash, and the exploitation of that lack of compassion / sense of injustice.

Exactly this.

AspieAndProud · 25/10/2018 16:31

Men don’t like cheats. Neither do women, but if a man competes against women in sport other men can call them a cheat without being dismissed as a sore loser.

sawdustformypony · 25/10/2018 17:03

Men don’t like cheats. Neither do women, but if a man competes against women in sport other men can call them a cheat without being dismissed as a sore loser.

Ooooh, I've just realised that this could be handy for women that didn't want to dismissed as sore losers, too !

AspieAndProud · 25/10/2018 17:08

I think the questions are remarkably neutral when placed alongside the usual ‘Would you rather have a daughter than a dead son coercively assigned male at birth by Evil Terf Bastards? WELL WOULD YOU, EH?!?!’

R0wantrees · 25/10/2018 17:17

cf the wording and results of the Social Atitude survey published earlier this year (chapter 11)
www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/39147/bsa34_moral_issues_final.pdf

OlennasWimple · 25/10/2018 17:24

Red - remember, TRAs would also like to ensure that no "transphobes" are in the public sector, in journalism, in teaching...it's not just the political sphere. Now where have we seen this sort of thing before?

Hint to lurking fence-sitters: it's not GC feminists asking for discussion and debate that are following the handbook for totalitarianism

Theswaggyotter · 25/10/2018 17:43

Wow it’s great to see some proper research being done and results are striking. Most people do not believe twaw. So why are so few media outlets allowed to say this?

TimeLady · 25/10/2018 19:45

Are these results being sent to all MPs?

Electron1 · 25/10/2018 20:08

Red - remember, TRAs would also like to ensure that no "transphobes" are in the public sector, in journalism, in teaching...it's not just the political sphere.

And the data splits out public and private, whilst there is a higher trend in public sector it's not as pronounced in proportion to the amount of brainwashing/subjugation/intimidation they have had.

Electron1 · 25/10/2018 20:09

I sent it to my Labour MP last night, I am meeting him on 3/11 to ask if he still wants to go out on a limb.....

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 20:23

Remember only 24% of 18 - 24 years buy this shit hook line and sink. For every other age group its significantly less.

If we consider that 1 in 3, 18 to 24 year old are in full time education, there's still a lot of students who don't agree with all of this.

I'm curious about how this will pan out over time for that reason.

PouringMilk · 25/10/2018 20:33

If we consider that 1 in 3, 18 to 24 year old are in full time education, there's still a lot of students who don't agree with all of this.

It is.