University turns disabled toilets into all-gender toilets

[sayhelloandwavegoodbye]

here

"The University has made existing single cubicle disabled toilets gender neutral, which means there will be no situation in which two people of any gender identity will be in the same room, ensuring they can feel comfortable using the space. This differs from gender-neutral toilets at some other universities in the UK, where entire bathrooms have been designated gender neutral. This is a solution proposed by the students themselves, discussed and agreed at the Union’s Student Council."

Interesting that this university has recognised the obvious issues with mixed sex toilets but it does seem to be entirely at the expense of disabled users.

Incidentally, I guest lecture at this Uni and they moved into a brand new, purpose built campus last month. So appropriation of the disabled toilets seems to be waht they did with their own building as a short term measure before moving.

In the new campus there are some traditional Female and Male toilets with cubicles and then some gender inclusive toilets which are a row of about 6 individual rooms with sinks and doors that meet the floor off a main corridor.

So they appear to have built the campus in mind with continuing to separate the sexes whilst also providing a gender neutral space.

It's not ideal but this is 'a' solution.

I do wonder if the disabled toilet actually have changing places tables and things, how would that work?

Fuck me, they may as well be pushing the disabled person off the sign. It is a solution....a bit like putting baby change facilities in the disabled toilets.....a white solution that makes the toilets less accessible for the people for whom it was originally intended.

white should be shite but my phone purses it's lips at me when I swear.

Why all gender, why not unisex?

My Disabled rights are stuck and going nowhere fast. Can get in about 10% oflocal shops but no one cares or inforces it. Yet Trans rights have gone from zero to 90%. If I can’t get in a shop no one cares a toss, if Transwomwen can’t get in women changing room there appear a no end money for legal support, out cry and coverage.

Since Trans individual don’t have to fight to get what we still fighting for, any chance of someone helping us fight for equality too? No didn’t think so.

Well, that would mean longer wait times for disabled people? There aren’t usually a lot of accessible toilets so I’m not sure it’s a good solution to then make them for those who don’t want to use sex separated toilets as well.

I really hope no one is interpreting my post as me suggesting that using the disabled toilets is a good solution!

It sounds like they're building more disabled/all-gender toilets so, according to queueing theory, even if the ratio of disabled people to these new toilets stays the same, the wait time would decrease. Even if the ratio drops slightly, there's a certain level where it has no negative impact on wait times.

even if the ratio of disabled people to these new toilets stays the same

Apologies, I realise that I phrased that poorly, what I should have said is that, even if all the new users are taken into account and the ratio of users:toilets stays the same.

Gronky

How will that work, unless each disabled toilet in in its own room it won't work. At them moment they are made to allow a carer in with space to change a nappy if needed. If there's more than on stall this will no be very private.

But they wouldn’t. They say oh bother we need unisex loo. Orders unisex sign to stick on legal required accesable toilet. Job done for less than fiver.

How will that work, unless each disabled toilet in in its own room it won't work

It sounds like that's exactly what they're doing:

some gender inclusive toilets which are a row of about 6 individual rooms with sinks and doors that meet the floor off a main corridor

Ah, then that's a much better solution than I originally thought.

It's not the best solution, but it is expensive and time consuming for a business or pubic venue to install a fourth bathroom/shower. So it works as a stop-gap or even permanently in some situations. Very few people use the disabled facilities as it is now, and they were NEVER intended to be a "no waiting zone".

Though I'm guessing that all the trans and other random pervs who are just dying to have easy access to naked women, will be on the internet pretending to be disabled and complaining that "now they have to wait".

Personally, sometimes my disability is very obvious, and pretty much everybody offers to let me "cut in line" etc etc. So I don't think this is going to be much of a problem.

Anyway, notice that it was the students themselves who came up with this plan. Which means that there was a whole lot of young people who could see the problems with letting anyone into spaces where women are particularly vulnerable and disrobing.

It will just PeakTrans even more people when the trans have a meltdown over not being able to shower next to naked women. Because if trans really just want to shower in safety AND recognized that women are entitled to set our own sexual boundaries, then they wouldn't be complaining. Nothing to complain about unless you're a perv who doesn't think women are entitled to boundaries.

I thought public building had to provide separate disabled loos where possible. Is that not right?

So someone who can't use the usual loos will have to wait for some blue haired boy to finish touching up his makeup and stuffing his bra with loo roll?

Not if there is 6 of these toilets.

I've seen at least one other UK university use this as a solution (I'm assuming not the same one because of the new purpose build campus). I agree it's not a great solution, and if unis want to go down the "third spaces" route, they should create purpose built unisex toilets so this does not impact on disabled users.

Could you ask them if they have assessed the impact of the change on disabled users/students to make sure it will not have a negative outcome for them? Perhaps point out that some disabled people have issues with urgency and increased wait times would be significantly more detrimental to them than the average user. You could also remind the university of their obligations under the DDA in a "I'm worried this won't be DDA compliant and I wouldn't want this to cause problems" type of way?

As they are "all gender" toilets, this presumably opens the toilets up to everyone- potentially massively increasing wait times if they are in more convenient locations?

"How will that work, unless each disabled toilet in in its own room it won't work

It sounds like that's exactly what they're doing:

some gender inclusive toilets which are a row of about 6 individual rooms with sinks and doors that meet the floor off a main corridor"

Ah, no, sorry. To clarify the single cubicles are definitely not wheelchair accessible.

I've not checked out the disabled toilets on the new campus, I more than assume that they are there, however.

So from what I've seen the new campus has:

female toilets (grouped)
male toilets (grouped)
disabled toilets
unisex toilets (narrow individual cubicles)

So, in other words, a fourth space.

I'm confused now, so they are separated from disabled toilets?

Basically before on the old campus they didn't throw the door open to the ladies, but appropriated the disabled toilets.

In the brand new, purpose built campus that launched this year they built a fourth space.

I have no respect for the trampling over of disability rights wrt what they did with the old campus, but I DO find it interesting that they didn't just hand over the ladies.

I am not remotely keen on them having thrown the disabled toilets open to all, but it is of interest that they chose this option and then built a fourth space when opportunity presented itself.

Instead of going with TWAW and so belong in the ladies. The end.

Yes captain kirk, sorry for the confusion.

They've built a fourth gender neutral space (that excludes disabled people who are back to having their own space).

Your title is misleading.

It's doesn't excluding disable people, there are disabled toilets too.

My title isn't misleading because in 2015 the university turned disabled toilets into all gender toilets.

Three years later they moved to a new campus with a fourth space.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that the university turned disabled toilets into all gender toilets. Because that's what they did.