sick to the back teeth of uncomfortable, impractical clothes

[KiteMarked]

The poem, "Dangerous Coats" by Sharon Owens has been echoing around and around in my brain this summer. For years I've struggled with fake pockets, small pockets, clothes that pinch, that ride up, that fall down, that aren't comfortable - all in the name of fashion, or what's "normal" for a woman to wear. My attention has been subconsciously been taken up with worrying about how I looked, or thinking about that delicious moment at the end of the day when I can finally rip my bra off, or what outfit I should wear, what "goes" with what. The list is endless.
I look at my DH, who doesn't consider any of these things. He wears whatever top with whatever trousers. His shoes are practical, comfortable, and long-wearing. He gets dressed, and goes about his day without another thought about what he looks like. His pockets! Aaaahh, his pockets hold all his necessities with ease, and he always has free hands/arms.
I have some sensory issues anyway, so I pass no judgement on other women's choices, but my clothes have been a source of low-to-mid-level discomfort and suffering most of my adult life.
So I'm going to step out of this box I've placed myself in. I'm going to dress for comfort and practicality. I have started replacing my jeans with men's jeans (as a pear shaped woman, I thought this would be difficult, but surprisingly Lidl brand men's jeans fit nicely, with a bit of stretch - it helps that I'm tall) and as I already liked to wear button down shirts I've started wearing my DH's castoffs or charity shop bargains. The clothes are much baggier than I'm used to. They don't show off my "figure". But I am comfortable, I have room to move and stretch without my stomach showing, my sleeves are finally long enough, my jeans are thick enough to keep me warm, I can carry my phone in my pocket without risk of it falling into the loo (!!).

In actual fact, I feel like I look a bit smarter when I dress in a shirt and jeans/trousers, while also feeling more comfortable. I'm happy with this experiment, and think I'll dress like this more often. My next experiment is with more formal clothes, because dresses often annoy me, too.

I came across this article today, which is fascinating in comparing pockets in mens vs womens clothes. pudding.cool/2018/08/pockets/#step-2

“Men have pockets to keep things in, women for decoration.”

Pockets are a feminist issue....

I teach reception. All the boys have trousers with pockets. Most of the girls either wear dresses or trousers without pockets.
When it comes to time to tidy up the boys wander about looking busy with their hands in their pockets while the girls actually do stuff.
(That said my two best tidiers are boys)

Perhaps girls/women's clothes don't have pockets because the majority of women don't want clothes with pockets? I've never heard women complain about this in real life. It can be frustrating if you're in the minority, but market forces tend to rule.

And I just don’t think there is any massive anti-woman conspiracy forcing you not to wear comfortable clothes. There’s just marketing, which any sensible independent adult is free to ignore

I CAN'T BUY COMFORTABLE CLOTHES MADE OF SOFT NATURAL FIBRES (100% COTTON) THAT COME UP TO MY WAIST AND ACTUALLY FIT MY WAIST AND/OR MY BUM OR DON'T EXPOSE MY WAIST (TOPS). Even PJs don't come up to my waist and they are much thinner than men's ones. I have trouble finding shoes with proper arch support that are a good height - not flat as a pancake or ultra high and built for a slim foot. I'm too short for men's clothes. I'd actually really just like 100% cotton knickers that didn't pinch or ride up. I don't know if this is a massive anti-woman conspiracy - I do know that it drives me fucking nuts.

So it's just a mysterious sex-based preference then: men like pockets and women don't. For no reason. Er, ok.

'If your employer is forcing you to wear heels or anything else, that’s one thing and definitely a feminist issue and I completely support you in fighting it. Other women have succeeded in getting these rules overturned, so stick to your guns and you will too. Aside from that, I’m afraid like other posters I’m not seeing the issue.'
Can you not see that this is a continuum, with casual women's clothes (+makeup +shoes) the everyday 'choice' and workwear the smarter version? It's not like you wear what you like everyday and then we all go to work in an identical spaceage jumpsuit.
You're 'not seeing the issue' because women who are sent home for not wearing heels can always go to court? How many women need to go to court (which presumably gets in the way of earning a living or so I've heard) over this? I had rather hoped those in government could just solve it as that's what we pay them to do. When they work on it they're not missing work to do so, they're doing their jobs.

I've never heard women complain about this in real life.

You’ve not met me or my friends then.

'So it's just a mysterious sex-based preference then: men like pockets and women don't. For no reason.' I feel better knowing it's just, like, one of those random things? and not, you know, an oppressive social/political/economic system which maintains male dominance.

It's like women's pyjamas. I went looking for a pair the other day. I could have had: Little Mermaid, Bambi, Winnie the Pooh, or writing on the front such as 'Pink, cocktails and glitter' or 'your loss babe' confused. Oh and they were almost all short sleeved

Where the hell were you shopping? One quick look at the m&s site alone shows a huge variety of women's pyjamas, and plenty long sleeved and warm. There are literally tons available on the high st.

amandadecabernet no, that’s not what I said. I said women being forced to wear overly “feminine” clothes for work is an issue where it occurs. Social pressure to wear fashionable clothes at the expense of comfort is a different question and is not, imo, in the top ten list of things feminism needs to address.

I think the problem is that if, as a woman, you dress for comfort you risk being considered frumpy or not concerned about your appearance, and in many situations not being taken seriously. As a young woman, that may inhibit your desirability, because even the wokest of woke young men have been socialised (as women have) to consider certain styles of dress attractive.

This. There’s a current thread running about making a 14 year old girl “take pride in her appearance” because she only wears jeans and hoodies. I have read countless threads on make up, hair style, hair removal and clothes which cite “ basic grooming” as hair free, hair done, foundation, eyeshadow, mascara and lippy plus a nice outfit as the absolute minimum before you can leave the house. If you don’t subscribe to this you are a slob, don’t care, possibly depressed, and not presenting “your best self” to the world. Which will obviously suffer for it.

I've never heard women complain about this in real life. Oh ffs yes we are all bots.
And so is everyone here.

@bluntness I was in Sainsbury's, Tesco and Matalan.

amandadecabernet no, that’s not what I said. I said women being forced to wear overly “feminine” clothes for work is an issue where it occurs. Social pressure to wear fashionable clothes at the expense of comfort is a different question and is not, imo, in the top ten list of things feminism needs to address.

1. I quoted you so I'm not sure how it's not what you said.
2. As I said, there is a continuum with casual clothes on one end and formal clothes on the other. I do not believe you can separate them out. To me that is not a different question, it is exactly the same thing.

At my work and with my friends, a dress with pockets is seen as such a good thing. We are all like "ooh pockets!" and the wearer says smugly, "I know!" With her hands tucked comfily inside her pockets.

Posted too soon!

But that's really not the point is it?

Men's clothes are not routinely sprinkled with shitty slogans about glitter and prosecco, or cut in a way that accentuates their tits, or don't allow for them to carry personal items lest they look less pleasing to the eye. Men are allowed to proceed through their daily lives without feeling the pressure that we're subject to. We need to think past 'Oh they've got some in M&S' really.

Charley50 yes, that whole conversation has become a marketing trope 'Hey ladies, come getcher pockets!' And there was a thing at the Oscars one year, where women were showing off pockets in their dresses on the red carpet. (That possibly doesn't count as 'real life' lol but I'd argue that the zeitgeisty stuff is what you notice changing year to year at awards/Hollywood/red carpet events and each year is otherwise indistinguishable from any other.)

I live near a river and we regularly pass couples walking along the muddy towpath with the man wearing comfortable enclosed flat shoes and the woman wearing 'strappy sandals' or flipflops or court shoes or heels. OK, those women made a choice to go for a walk in the wrong shoes, but perhaps they were going for a stroll after lunch in a nice restaurant, and whereas the men's shoes are OK for any situation, the women's just still aren't.

So it's just a mysterious sex-based preference then: men like pockets and women don't. For no reason. Er, ok.

It's not mysterious at all. Pockets on the hips are more difficult to get right on women's clothes due to body shape I'd imagine. On women with curvier hips they tend to gape. Then there's the fact that putting stuff in your pockets makes the garment change shape. Someone up thread said they wanted to put purse, phone etc. in their pockets, that would weigh the pockets down. The only type of pockets my DH routinely has in his jacket that I don't is inside chest pockets. I think they are useful for him, but it isn't really difficult to see why they wouldn't work the same for me. If you prefer to wear clothes made for men go for it. I like my clothes and never ever wear anything uncomfortable. I don't want big pockets in everything either thanks all the same.

But surely there must be an element of voting with one's female feet?

I don't see glittery shit on women's clothes because I don't shop at places that sell that stuff.

(Responding to MrsV.)

I bought a long skirt online recently.

It wasn’t until i put it on that I realised it has two wonderful, deep, useful pockets.

It brought home that barely any of my clothes have useable pockets. And i tend to wear casual, loose fit clothing.

It also made me remember that as a teenager/young adult i never carried a bag, and never needed to. Wallet in one pocket, keys in the other. Somewhere along the line i have found it impractical to do this, and started carrying a cross body bag.

It’s not me carrying more, it’s that fashion has changed. In the 90’s baggy jeans, mens and a jumper or fleece were my chosen style, although all my dresses, even laura ashley style had pockets too.

I went online to leave a review of my wonderful skirt- the previous review was negative as the buyer thought “pockets ruin the line of clothes”. It’s a fucking maxi skirt, not a designer made to measure catwalk piece. Give me pockets! My arse is wide enough that pockets won’t make much impact, i’m no slim hipped supermodel.

Well that's good but if you can only afford to shop in places like Primark and the supermarkets then it's very prevalent. There's only so much voting with the feet that can be done I suppose.

I was responding (sarcastically) to a previous post NaturalBornWoman

NaturalBornWoman the only pockets that get distorted if you have wide hips are pockets on the side seam (though I'd argue that if a garment fits properly that shouldn't happen) and there are other versions available which don't, like a slash pocket on the front of the garment. Men put stuff (incl their hands) in their pockets - incl side pockets - which also changes the shape of the garment, but that's okay, they just deal with it. No one is saying you should be forced to have pockets, we're saying there should be choices available and pockets are vanishing from women's clothes.

Companies are using pockets (as a searchable word) to sell their clothes, and they don't do that for nothing: www.google.com/search?q=dresses+with+pockets&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b