AIBU to refuse to use 'preferred pronouns'?

[BonBonns]

If someone presents themselves as transgender and says they want to be known as 'she' do I have to do that?

Do I have no freedom of speech?

I do not believe people can change sex.

I do not believe that a man can become a woman. With pronoun use. With hormones. With dresses or lipstick. With surgery.

It is just NOT my personal belief.

Is it a hate crime to refer to someone born male as a man against their will?

Even if it is against mine?

Where would that end?

I am atheist. Do I have to say I believe in God to appease a Catholic? Am I forced to refer to a priest as 'Father' even though I don't follow that religion?

If someone is called David but wants to be called Dave am I to be investigated if I choose to continue using David?

Isn't this madness?

How can my own beliefs come 2nd to someone else's delusions?

It is biology. It is science. It is common sense.

A man cannot become a woman any more than I can become 23 again or an antelope.

I never accused anyone of transphobia, and I never suggested it was as simple as just being kind, however when confronted with the opportunity to make an individual feel respected and validated, not to do so seems remarkably unkind.

I haven’t RTFT because I’m shattered and I’m trying to cook.
But from a woman with two X chromosomes who has been pregnant and is currently mensturating
PLEASE- call people what they ask or use gender neutral pronouns if you can’t face calling them what they ask.

I am definitely a woman, but I’m hairstuit
I’ve got a beard, and a hairy neck and chest, if I don’t groom it every forty eight hours religiously I have a full face load of stubble.

I’ve been chucked out of women’s toilets, because people thought I’m a bloke in a dress.

If I say I’m a woman I want people to fucking hear me without me having to pull down my trousers to prove it.

ellastellabella You did accuse people of transphobia and bigotry here, you have had 2 comments removed for abusing us today alone. Did you not notice?

Actually, it includes those on the waitlist, too.

And until a diagnosis of gender dysphoria is made, how can you actually identify a member of the trans population for research purposes?

Like I said, it’s got to be substantiated and peer reviewed for it to be evidential.

Trans youth are at no greater risk of suicide than any other child under the CAMHS.

Being an adolescent is absolutely shit for pretty much everyone.

I still think that people avoid using certain truths to avoid offence, even when not told to do so.

‘Who were you out with? ‘

‘Ruth’

‘Not sure I know her’

‘Yes you do, the really fat woman’

Truthful and efficient, it readily identifies the colleague and is honest (assuming she was much fatter than everybody else).

How many would even say ‘You know Ruth, the black woman’, even if she was the only black woman in the firm?

So why would you choose not to use preferred pronouns assuming the individual in question was not offensive or want to impinge on anyone else’s rights?

I do believe that there is a difference between a trans woman and a woman and, as a heterosexual man, I would not want to sleep with one. However, basic politeness is not the same and costs nothing.

Reduction ad absurdum arguments (‘i’m A dog, call me Fido’ et al) don’t really offer insight into a nuanced debate.

You say 'abusing women' as if I've been making derogatory remarks about ALL women, when in fact I insulted one person who happened to be a woman (her gender is irrelevant to me).

Gender is irrelevant to most posters on this board - that alone won’t get comments removed.

So schools now trade in suicide contagion? I bet it was some organization effectively done by TRAs who did that. When this all blows up, it will be epic.

And until a diagnosis of gender dysphoria is made, how can you actually identify a member of the trans population for research purposes?

You can’t Betty.

Never once did I mention transphobia, please don't put words in my mouth.

I also think that politeness isn't about conciliation/submissiveness/lack of power. I would say it is about dignity and self-respect. It is not incompatible with having boundaries and letting people know when those boundaries are infringed. (For example most of us try to bring up our children without shouting and swearing at them.)

ellastellabella

You directed sex-based insults at her. They were reported for misogynistic abuse and were removed on that basis.

Again, I recommend looking at the FAQ page, there's a lot there and it would no doubt answer many of your questions.

Just one example for what Stonewall is quoting:

"Two in five (41 per cent) trans people have been attacked or threatened with violence in the last 5 years. (FRA LGBT Survey 2012, sample size = 813)"

I'm assuming this maps tp the question in the survery here, under Violence and Harassement, which reads:
"In the last 5 years, have you been: physically/sexually attacked or threatened with violence at home or elsewhere (street, on public transport, at your workplace, etc) for any reason?"

Note the way the question is phrased 'for any reason' - so would appear to include 'got pissed and punched someone' as instances of violence.
The actual question asked was:
"Personally harassed by someone or a group for any reason in the last 5 years in a way that really annoyed, offended or upset you?"

That could cover accidental misgendering, well, anything, really.

Larry that’s cool, your choice.

But it is a choice, and it should remain up to the individual. Women are told to ‘be nice’ from girlhood onwards. Sometimes we get sick of it. Some times we rebel against it.
Some times we genuinely aren’t nice people!

The actual question asked was:
"Personally harassed by someone or a group for any reason in the last 5 years in a way that really annoyed, offended or upset you?"

😂😂 my word!

Oh I implied that she wouldn't get any sex, how misogynistic of me.

not to do so seems remarkably unkind.

The pressure on women to always be kind, budge up, make space, give things up, put others first, is insidious and deeply rooted.

Oh I implied that she wouldn't get any sex, how misogynistic of me.

Yes, yes it is, and if you are truly incapable of seeing that for what it is... I'm not sure you're able to learn.

I'm going now, but I tried at least to give an insight of how these debates affect the youth and mark my words, in 20 years you will treated with the same no-nonsense remorse as the homophobes and the racists are, just because you are choosing to stay rooted in the past, doesn't mean the rest of us won't move forward.

Oh I implied that she wouldn't get any sex, how misogynistic of me.
= calling a woman ugly because she doesn't agree with you. BINGO! Cock is abundant and of low value, dear...

That’s pretty misogynistic, considering the lengths most women have had to take to try and avoid having non-consensual sexual contact foisted upon them. Even old and conventionally unattractive women. Even underage girls.

Making casual sexual insults is not generally considered acceptable in feminist discourse.

We are in fact the ones wishing to move forward with a gender critical stance that doesn't equate sex (male or female) with gender (masculine or feminine) as the TRA's do. We reject notions of 'lady brain' as unscientific and sexist, and wish for men or women to express their gender identity however they wish without the need for surgery.

I think a great many of us are already aware that younger people currently have different ideas about gender identity. Certainly my daughter and I do not have the same perspective. On the other hand it's possible that my daughter - who has just emerged from university - may not hold exactly the same opinions at 31 or 41 that she has at 21. Life changes us.