Late transitioning female to male?

[TransposersArePosers]

Sorry if this has been done before - I did do a search but nothing came up.

Having filled in the consultation yesterday (took all day ffs) got me thinking about the late transitioning after the spousal consent question. It struck me that we hear about male to female transitioning in middle age, but I am not aware of any female to male in this age group.

Are there any? And if not, why not? Or is the opting out of womanhood something that tends to happen younger (as evidenced by the massive increase in girls wanting to transition).

'cos we get the moustache anyway without having to take hormones 😅

(sorry, couldn't resist)

I have wondered this too. I would assume there are some but as women we are conditioned to put others before ourselves and by middle age a lot of women have others they are responsible for. I expect they would take the feelings of others into consideration in a way men aren't brought up to. Iyswim.

Because women are less prone to sexual philias and so aren't autogynephiliacs (what's the female term - is there one?)

And in addition to this, how many of them are married to men who then stay married to them during and after transition, in the way so many women stay married to their transitioned husbands. I'd bet it's close to zero.

Middle aged women do not masturbate at the thought of themselves dressed as men.

I know someone who is thinking about it. She (and this is her chosen pronoun for now) is married to another woman and not ready to take the step but I think she will get there. She's 40.

Yes, I've been wondering about this too. I'm a lesbian, I mix with quite a lot of older lesbians, and we can think of only one woman over the age of 40 who has transitioned — and she was someone who had a bundle of issues, including a background of sexual abuse.

I think a lot of it's cultural. The older lesbians are more politicised than the younger ones. They remember a time when being a butch lesbian wasn't acceptable: they remember Section 28, they were members of Stonewall at the time it was actively working at obtaining rights for lesbian women rather than giving women's rights away to people who merely believe they are women. They are also feminists and aren't under the pressure that young women are to perform femininity properly or become a man.

I think this is a socio-cultural phenomenon being pushed by a men's rights backlash that encourages right-on young men and women to be deeply misogynist while maintaining their woke credentials.

Middle aged women do not masturbate at the thought of themselves dressed as men.

This^

I know one (late 30s, mum, long history of both physical and mental health issues). Her husband divorced her. She identifies as a gay man, so would have been happy to stay with him.

I think that’s part of the reason ROGD has been suggested.

There are very few older women “coming out” as trans, despite the increase in visibility. So why are the majority of young people coming forward female. The implication being that there must be another factor, the proposal being that factor is social contagion.

But yes, to those who say women don’t have AGP. Many older “trans” are transvestites and cross-dressers, emboldened in this brave new world.

flora The person I know is very into slash fiction and does give the impression of being whatever the female equivalent of AGP is.

This has been in my mind too. Kind of disproves the ‘gender is innate’ and sexed brains.

I’m too fucking busy to think about putting a brush through my hair some days, let alone presenting to the world as a bloke.

The more I read and see the more angry I get. Why are the TRAs not asking for MORE? Why do they want to reduce medical care? Or the time for reflection?

Surely they should be demanding more support?

Because there are thousands of young girls being referred and detransitioning and no fucker give a shit. It’s all middle aged males wanting an easier ride. Reducing the age to 16? THAT IS FUCKING CRAZY. Anyone with teens knows that the 16 year old child is not the adult they are going to be. It’s harmful. Actually harmful.

If we haven’t fucked up the next generation enough with Brexit and Tuition fees, we can have a really good crack at fucking up both their physical and mental health.

And yet, and yet, it NEVER gets raised. We are not looking after our young people. We are not helping them by taking care and support away. We are not helping trans people by not providing specific health care, or denying biology. These are the fucking adults in charge now creating yet another massive problem.

Interesting that the two examples on this thread both refer to other issues.

In terms of young women, Stephanie Davis Arai has said that she has yet to see a young woman transition who wasn't either autistic, lesbian, or had suffered from some kind of sexual trauma.

Women don't transition for arousal purposes.

Men do. Transvestite fetishism and AGP can now be brought into the public sphere with a goodly helping of stunning, brave and Teflon coated 'rights'.

According to Ray Blanchard's typology, every late transitioning man will be an autogynephile (aroused by the thought of themself as a woman).

Whereas the younger man who transitions world generally fall into the HSTS bracket, (homosexual transsexual.)

Given exactly how many aggressive men are now coming out of the woodwork, I think there are probably a few more categories as well. But generally that is why women don't tend to transition late. It's simply not a turn on that they can finally bring out into the open.

This is what first alerted me to the sexual element. The lack middle aged women wearing false beards and marching into the men’s toilets demanding all the men look at their bloke vulva.

The teenage girls are all acting out a form of self harm. If left alone with the right support they’d become, eventually, ordinary middle aged women - pissed off with the world but ok with their fairly unkempt bodies and reasonably cheerful. Like me.

This is what first alerted me to the sexual element. The lack middle aged women wearing false beards and marching into the men’s toilets demanding all the men look at their bloke vulva.

And everyone knows it. They do. It's no surprise that there are no women like that, and equally no surprise that there are lots of men like that.

They just don't think it through to its logical conclusion. That it is these men who are demanding access to women's spaces to validate their fetish. Many women recoil from articulating that thought.

Until they do. And then it's gloves off.

The AGP angle did cross my mind, but not the idea that we take our resposibilities to others perhaps more seriously than the narcissistic types? (Not saying that all late transitioners are narcissistic)

As a sex class women are probably more accepting - or conditioned to be more accepting - of more diversity within our class, so that I am not threatened by someone who doesn't do feminine female (although perhaps slightly intimidated by very beautiful, immaculately presented women of which I am very definitely not one!)

Ultimately I think it is a combination of AGP types, those that need to feel superior to women and by their size can intimidate, and the non alpha males who can't bear to have failed in the male world, so seek to dominate in the female (sports shows this well - where are the female to male sportspeople breaking records set by men?)

And for Juells comment

Actually Datun, if I’m honest, it’s you that first alerted me to the sexual element . I saw the lack of women cross dressers etc but I didn’t know the significance of that till I read your posts. It’s been a crash course in feminism and dodgy male sexuality at the University of Datun

According to Ray Blanchard's typology, every late transitioning man will be an autogynephile (aroused by the thought of themself as a woman)

Should have put that on my consultation response. But in reality, would have been too scared to, although I alluded to it in one. I rewrote lots of my answers as it was.

Because middle aged women have all the caring and family support work to do. They don’t have time to sit around navel gazing and getting excited about imagining themselves being the opposite sex. Plus they tend to put their kids and their feelings first if a way that many self centred men do not.

Fucking hell. God help us.

It’s terrifying that this shit is changing the laws of the lands.

It’s fucking pandering. It’s the spoilt kid approach. Threatening to cry until they puke if they don’t get their own way immediately, for the instant gratification. And what’s the conclusion? What’s next? Because a spoilt child demands more and more and more. On their terms.

It’s indulgent and it’s fucking first world problems. Take a look at what happens to girls around the world and campaign for them. Not for your right to turn your birth certificate into a lie. There’s no fucking sense in any of this.

No. Go ahead and cry. You’ll thank us for it one day.

Absolutely furious and so over this shit.

Disclaimer - I'm on of those 'may have been transed if I was born today' 'tomboy' types. Some female autistic traits, cba with a diagnosis. I'm heterosexual.

I strongly feel that many young women are trying to identify out of oppression. I know I did it (I was that 'all my friends are boys, girls are silly, i can do anything because I don't like pink' idiot). I even considered a 'non-binary' label briefly, before deciding it was all bollocks.

For me, I feel like once the worst years of the oppression are over there's not a lot of point transing to identify out of female oppression. Middle aged women have already survived the worst years of being female iyswim.

Plus, I think more women are likely to be GC anyway, or have got away with pretty much 'dressing like a man' public for years, so gain less in terms of what they feel they can do differently if they trans.

Plus who would willingly identify into the men's toilets, when you probably wouldn't 'pass' anyway - that's bloody dangerous.

On the flip side, men are identifying into sparkles and pink, long hair and a love of soft things, they've been doing it in secret until now and want to do it in public, they're identifying into safer spaces rather than more dangerous ones.

That's without bringing the fetish side into it.

My opinion for clarity: lets all wear what the fuck we like (you can use what pronouns you like as well, I don't give a shiny shit about your pronouns), separate toilets, etc, by biological sex.

We simply don't have the bloody time for a mid life crisis.

I think you are absolutely right Frlrlrubert

It's aspirational for women to be tall, like fashion models. Transwomen are portrayed as glamorous and sexy far more often than transmen. The idea of being a 5'3 bloke with genitals that don't work like those of an average XY male is much less appealing.

I am a cis-presenting bi woman in my early 40s with autism traits, who has no interest in surgery and taking hormones. Many of my sexual fantasies now are a mirror image of heterosexual fantasies from my teens, in which I am now the man instead - but that is as who I might have been now had I been born male and were in optimal shape, definitely not as a transman after surgery. I have always had a bit of an autoandrophiliac tendency but it has got stronger in fantasies as I've got older - part of me clearly fetishises conventional, stereotyped M/f sexual scenarios which I don't actually enjoy that much IRL, and now I am older the role of the older more dominant male in those scenarios clicks with me. Sex with women as a man appeals to me more than sex with women in my female body, which I have done. I don't consider these fantasies to have any bearing on how I live the rest of my life, I deliberately don't go into that headspace when I have sex with my male partner, and it's just a small corner of my mind and I spend most of my time thinking about other things. (Name change for obvious reasons.)

I basically agree with Frlrlrubert about 'identifying-out oppression'. I don't feel any of that woe-is-me-I'm invisible middle aged woman thing. I feel a sense of authority and neutrality that I didn't as a twentysomething - although my voice helps to an extent that won't apply to everyone.

applecidervin - You're like opposite me!

In my adolescent fantasies I was often the male (as you say, the male I would have been, not female me after surgery - though that wasn't even a consideration back then). I'm always female me in my fantasies now, like acceptance has come with age.

I'm actually more stereotypically female presenting now (though still no makeup) than I was in my 20s now I've decided that clothes don't define a 'gender'.

I find how much we change our preferences and presentation in adulthood fascinating - and it adds to how terrifying transing children is for me.