Late transitioning female to male?

[TransposersArePosers]

Sorry if this has been done before - I did do a search but nothing came up.

Having filled in the consultation yesterday (took all day ffs) got me thinking about the late transitioning after the spousal consent question. It struck me that we hear about male to female transitioning in middle age, but I am not aware of any female to male in this age group.

Are there any? And if not, why not? Or is the opting out of womanhood something that tends to happen younger (as evidenced by the massive increase in girls wanting to transition).

Maybe for the number of young women identifying they are in that place - questioning their sexuality, taking on the dominant (stereotypical male role) - so are reasoning they must be gay? That’s the narrative being fed to them. Whereas it’s a fantasy that may or may not indicate that they are gay, bi, straight.

But what is so very important is that this is not the factor that makes the decision. Sexuality, exploring it, is so important - everyone needs to be allowed to do this in their own time.

So when I hear they want to take away the 2 year period, or reduce the age to 16, I’m screaming ‘what about the girls?’.

The middle aged trans women have had the time and privilege to think it through, to try things out and figure out who they are or want to be. They might know What they need to do, and they should have all the mental health support, medical support, guidance, tolerance, kindness and respect that we should all expect. I have much empathy for people suffering from GD.

But it has to be a process. We simply must ensure individuals are given time and support before embarking on a life time of medication and irreversible medical intervention .

I spent a lot of my younger years yearning to be a beautiful, goth gay man (read way too much Anne Rice & Poppy Z Brite 😉).

I'd be a moderately convincing middle aged bloke now (tall, hefty, strong features) but doubt I'd actually have pulled that many gorgeous gay vampires, let's face it.

It was a fantasy. Perfectly harmless & I suspect not uncommon given the number of female friends I have who write slash fiction...

I very much doubt attempting to turn that fantasy into reality would have ended happily...but 19yo me would certainly have considered giving it a go.

I suspect perhaps men attach more importance to their fantasy sex lives than women do, generally?

I'm a lesbian, I mix with quite a lot of older lesbians, and we can think of only one woman over the age of 40 who has transitioned — and she was someone who had a bundle of issues, including a background of sexual abuse.

I could have written this, I wonder if it's the same person.

The transwidows thread shows that a lot of middle age men who decide to trans don't seem to care much what the effects will be on their kids, let alone their spouse.

rightreckoner

It's one of those things that once you see, you see everywhere. It becomes obvious.

I feel a sense of authority and neutrality that I didn't as a twentysomething

This. I wear what I want, have my hair how I want and am much more stroppy!
Plus a) it just looks stupid and b) men's toilets smell really really bad

so endorse what others have said... and I think when women do reevaluate their sexuality/identity in later life, there are a number who realise they prefer life as lesbian or bi.... this seems to happen far more than wanting to be the opposite sex.

So yes - no female equivalent of autogynaphilia ... no women giving up on their sex cos they just can't hack expanding the definition of being their sex... so many men seem to opt out of expanding the definition of being a man and see "becoming a woman" as the easy option

I know a few trans men who transitioned later in life. They all ‘pass’ exceptionally well so you may well know someone and not realise it!

There’s loads of trans men who work for Gendered Intelligence for example.

But yes, to those who say women don’t have AGP.

Wouldn’t that be AAG in this case? Auto androphilia?

I thought I may have invented the word but no, it exists but is rare:

en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/autoandrophilia

I think it's because part of the kick from AGP is the misogyny inherent in it being a humiliation fetish. It's the forced subordination that is arousing.

Fetishising women's second-class status seems to be a particularly male only possibility.

I think most middle-aged women know perfectly well, that our oppression has bugger all to do with how we identify. We could claim to be men till we’re blue in the face, but we would still have the same responsibilities for children etc. as we have as women.

Men, on the ither hand, have the power and entitlement, to demand others pretend they see them as women, even as they rarely take on the shitty unpaid care- and domestic work women their age do.

I suspect perhaps men attach more importance to their fantasy sex lives than women do, generally?

I think this is probably right.

There is so little about trans men in all of this though. With the friend that I knew I didn't really understand why they transitioned, I found it all quite distressing, particularly when they had surgery, as it seemed to come from nowhere. I think they probably pass now and they are very critical about TERFs when previously they were radical feminist if not lesbian separatist.

Men, on the ither hand, have the power and entitlement, to demand others pretend they see them as women, even as they rarely take on the shitty unpaid care- and domestic work women their age do.

This would be an interesting study, how much housework / caring etc. do trans women do compared to men or women. Probably not allowed though....

OnlyCalledHerOneTime

Yes, because it seems no scientific studies are allowed on the trans community, in case it exposes the fact that the large increase in numbers is due to AGPs .

Does anyone know if there is evidence for how many of the 500,000 (have heard that quoted somewhere) are AGPs? I feel that stat would help me when trying to explain this to others.

The transwidows thread shows that a lot of middle age men who decide to trans don't seem to care much what the effects will be on their kids, let alone their spouse.

Christine Benvenuto writes in her book that she asked her transitioning husband, "what if this destroys one or all of the children?" and the husband hissed "I would do it anyway."

I don't think there are many mothers who think like that.

It’s fucking pandering. It’s the spoilt kid approach. Threatening to cry until they puke if they don’t get their own way immediately, for the instant gratification. And what’s the conclusion? What’s next? Because a spoilt child demands more and more and more. On their terms.

Agreed. Apparently the current process takes too long, is too intrusive and too expensive.

You know what? I have endometriosis and adenomyosis. The average time it takes to diagnose endo in this country is 9 years. 9 years of physical agony and suffering, 9 years of missed work, inability to work, insane costs related to extremely heavy or near constant bleeding, the costs to the NHS, the costs to relationships...

Ever since I was diagnosed 15 years ago, women have been campaigning for better treatment, many of them with their lives and fertility in tatters. No one does a bloody thing about it. This affects one in ten women - that’s 5% of the adults country.

But a small group of Male-socialised people start kicking up a fuss that a system specifically set up for them to transition is too difficult, takes too long, costs too much... and after a load of threatened suicide attempts and utterly vile behaviour, they get a fucking public consultation and are on the lips of every sodding politician in the country.

Somehow I don’t buy it when I’m told that trans women don’t benefit from male privilege. Maybe if we had a bit of the same, or if this condition also affected men, we’d be getting somehere by now, but in 15 years nothing has changed.

Almost every medical or legal issue in this country takes a significant amount of time to deal with - I don’t know why they think that they are entitled to have this process made easier, at great cost to the country.

Prior to coming to live in the UK I knew (about) several trans women. I only know one woman, now well into her 70s, who in today's world would have been a trans man. I once suggested that to her youngest sister and she felt the same.

AGP/AAP aside - being something I only came to read about on this forum, some 6 months ago - I had always wondered about the greater number of trans women v trans men. AGP neatly answered that.

I should really see if I can find that masters dissertation again that I bought in the early 80s, which was about transexualism (I don't think 'transgender' existed as a term yet). I bought it because I thought it related to a story in a sexual health magazine about someone with an intersex condition, the dissertation wasn't about what I was interested in to find out, so I don't think I ever read it.

Are there more trans women than trans men though? (Genuine question!) I thought it was roughly equal just that trans men had less of a platform. Off the top of my head I can think of two trans men I would call friends and four I know through work.

Middle aged women are way too sensible.

Why would transmen have less of a platform than transwomen? Oh, wait, .....

Men, on the ither hand, have the power and entitlement, to demand others pretend they see them as women
I might be projecting here but I think many butch lesbians have some form of autoandrophilia. I certainly did/do. I'd say it's a big part of my sexuality, and even as a child I'd find ways to dress as a man (not just boy, man). If there was a part in a school play where I got to wear a suit and tie, happy days. I'd almost certainly have jumped at the chance to transition aged 12, female puberty was very distressing to me.
Why wouldn't I do it now? Mainly because I'm happy as I am. But also, having read this thread, the following considerations (all personal): I'm too short. I'd never have a functioning male body. It would affect my family. I'd have a vastly smaller pool of potential partners. Life would be worse, not better.
I'm lucky because I'm able to live happily as a butch lesbian and am accepted in men's clothing at work and in my private life with no real issues. That said, I've been beaten up by men for looking like I do, I've been turned down for jobs, I've been shouted at in the street. Probably less than a bloke in a dress would be, though.
So is it female socialisation that makes me acutely aware of when I make women uncomfortable in female-only spaces? Is it just acceptance of what I am? Is that driven by the fact it's easier to present as a masculine woman than a feminine man? What's the difference between me and an AGP?

There’s a late transitioning ftm person on instagram called Finn something who has had a phalloplasty which had some complications. Before transitioning she was a butch lesbian, but after transitioning identifies as a gay man and has a male partner. I think probably mid 40s to 50s but not absolutely sure of their exact age.