Is this an about-face from The Guardian?

[NopeNi]

Well fuck me I wouldn't have expected to read this in the Guardian.

I mean, don't get me wrong, it still focuses on rights for transwomen and calls both sides of the debate "toxic" (of course) but it also says:

..."But misogyny too must be challenged. Gender identity does not cancel out sex. Women’s oppression by men has a physical basis, and to deny the relevance of biology when considering sexual inequality is a mistake. The struggle for women’s empowerment is ongoing. Reproductive freedoms are under threat and the #MeToo campaign faces a backlash. Women’s concerns about sharing dormitories or changing rooms with “male-bodied” people must be taken seriously. These are not just questions of safety but of dignity and fairness."

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/17/the-guardian-view-on-the-gender-recognition-act-where-rights-collide

Just read it....

To little and far too damn late as we approach the last few days of the consultation (it's all in the timing ).

No, you won't be getting my subscription back because you throw a few crumbs at the last possible opportunity, having giving TRA's the whole bloody loaf for the last 18 months and more.

I don't generally like swearing but Fuck You The Guardian.

They have waited until it's too late to influence the consultation to publish these letters and this editorial. Now they are trying to rehabilitate their reputation with gender critical women. Whilst I hope this will open minds going forward, I'm not impressed with the Guardian.

I wonder whether, 'in the interests of balance', there will be a big TRA piece on Thursday.

I’ve always been circumspect on here. I don’t like name changing to post anonymously (have reverted to an old username) but I work for one of the organisations mentioned above.

My area of specialisation is not related to this issue so I’m not putting my head above the parapet or anything

I am appalled at the proposed changes to the GRA and the underhand tactics employed by a small minority of trans activists, who misrepresent the majority of transsexuals to trick well meaning individuals, corporations and organisations into endorsing their propaganda.

More pertinently, I was completely unaware of just how far the 2004 legislation had penetrated the hard won protections afforded to women and girls

I consider myself a fairly well informed feminist yet I have no recollection of any discussion of women’s rights around the original GRA.
I’m sure there must have been objections but the whole thing slipped under my radar.

There is no excuse for the failure of news organisations to recognise the TWAW movement as a fraud and an embarrassment. I won’t offer one but will attempt an explanation.

The problem for mainstream news is that the original GRA, woefully unexamined and, arguably, the source of the current conflict, plus the (rightly) protected status of trans individuals conferred a certain respectability to the calls for the 2004 legislation to be reconsidered.

There is also valid argument that submitting an application for GR to an unaccountable and anonymous panel is an outdated relic. More scrutiny of the certification process, plus right of appeal, would clearly be a welcome adjustment.

The well coordinated publicity of organisations like trans press et al, hijacked legitimate concerns from the trans community and yoked them to an extremist agenda. Most of us were completely taken in.

This also falls against a backdrop of unprecedented challenge for traditional news orgs. I got my job by working up through local news. That feeding ground has been completely eroded and most journalists now start on the nationals fresh from postgrad journalism courses with maybe a year at an agency under their belt if we’re lucky.

They are just as keen and committed as we were but with much less practice

Ad revenues are plummeting while readers’ expectations skyrocket - we can’t compete with twitter.

Large organisations are starting to get to grips with the nuances of this debate but they do have a very large turning circle and the bit that actually goes on air/gets published is the very tip of the prow.

This ball was badly dropped by my industry on this occasion but I think we may have reached a tipping point now.

This ball was badly dropped by my industry on this occasion but I think we may have reached a tipping point now.

I really hope we have. What do you think has caused or would cause the tipping point to be reached by these organisations now, if so?

The crazy thing is this now became a huge historic story that was completely missed, except by The Times - they got it. The story was that women and girls are very seriously at risk of losing rights and protections we have fought for and when we were concerned, (and the VAST majority were not radfems but regular women - who of course have now be radicalized by their treatment) we were aggressively silenced and bullied in the most heinous way by a small minority of men. They even want to redefine language without our consent, 50% of the human beings in this nation.

Those male activists on the front line of aggression were supported by a misogynistic wall of lobby groups, universities, political parties, media and commercial companies who all drank the kool-aid and took part in a massive effort to silence us and have one narrative only: “No Debate” “Transwomen are Woman” and “Die in a fire TERF”.

Luckily we had Posie Parker and Sticker Woman.

It may be too little too late for these boards but I still think it's significant. The bastion of wokeness has conceded that, 'Gender identity does not cancel out sex. Women’s oppression by men has a physical basis.'
Even if they try and backtrack, they can't retract that.

With the Guardian printing that, It's going to be much harder to write us off as bigots or in the pay of the far right. Some of us may even feel we can talk about it openly at work now. TRAs may have to come out and debate, and as the only other argument I've seen from them so far is, 'be nice,' I can't see that ending well for them.

Harrop is saddened

I, otoh, feel a little more upbeat than usual

The story was that women and girls are very seriously at risk of losing rights and protections we have fought for and when we were concerned, (and the VAST majority were not radfems but regular women - who of course have now be radicalized by their treatment)

This is the bit of the story the press seem to miss, even The Times. It's so often pitched as TRAs vs Feminists.

Obviously at this point I do consider myself feminist (how could I not!) but like many who have arrived here I have zero credentials for that really beyond reading a couple of books whilst at Uni. Until I became involved in this issue I don't think I'd so much as signed an online petition - so hardly much of an activist. I've done more in the last 2 years than the rest of my life combined.

'They are just as keen and committed as we were but with much less practice'

That's really interesting. It explains the naivety.

I think it was the Karen White story wot did it for them, they found themselves backed into a corner faced with having to defend the indefensible.

I genuinely think they hadn't realised what being a transwoman in 2018 means. I really think they thought it meant full op, hormones etc. Someone's realised.

Interestingly Justine has come out and said this echoes Mumsnet's position.

twitter.com/Justine_Roberts/status/1052805973683908608?s=19

I genuinely think they hadn't realised what being a transwoman in 2018 means.

THIS IS A NEWSPAPER

It's their job, to be ahead of everyone else and find shit out.

Not be so dim as to us the excuse 'oh well we didn't know'

They are the very people who ARE supposed to know on behalf of the rest of the public.

It's not as if The Times haven't managed it. And it's not as if The Guardian journalists are incapable of reading The Times.

Do not give them room for shitty meaningless excuses.

ITS THEIR JOB TO KNOW!!!

Interestingly Justine has come out and said this echoes Mumsnet's position.

Well too right!

ITS THEIR JOB TO KNOW!!!

Likewise MPs* and the people in companies who sign off on endorsing Stonewall messages.

*Or at the very least to listen, take on board and represent.

Of course they knew. They just didn‘t give a shit as long as they felt they were on the right side of history, even if that turns out to be the side of the Handmaid‘s take. Now that it looks like women aren‘t the pushovers they thought they were, which bodes badly for their historic predictions about right sides, they cover their behind. That is all.

Tale, not take, dear autocorrect.

Until I became involved in this issue I don't think I'd so much as signed an online petition - so hardly much of an activist. I've done more in the last 2 years than the rest of my life combined

this is me too (hah!)

I spent hours last night emailing every company I could get a contact for on the Stonewall ad, asking them if they knew that it looked like they were taking a stonewall backed, anti women position on the GRA consultation

I've filled in 2 government consultations now

a lot of my disposable income goes on this issue

i am a very, very lazy person. I don't quite recognise this activist who seems to want to get out

I wonder if it is beginning to dawn on the Grauniad that, whatever the outcome of the consultation, we are not going to stop? And that Labour is not going to win a general election while its front bench is completely pomo-addled? Think of the Shon Faye histrionics earlier - the sudden realisation that the post-industrial heartlands - the very votes Labour will need - are not going to buy it. Oh my god, they're telling the plebs about this! Panic stations! suddenly looks very transparent, does it not?

This. And no, we're not going to stop. This women's movement is just getting started.

Attempting to silence some of us permanently.

Oh fuck off. Can they hear themselves?

a small minority of trans activists, who misrepresent the majority of transsexuals

You know, you're still not getting it. The population of transsexuals is tiny. The population of non-dysphoric males declaring themselves trans is large and it is backed up by an equally large population of misogynist wokebros and another equally large population of pomo-addled handmaidens.

This is not the tail wagging the dog. Transactivism is the dog.

Of course they knew. They just didn‘t give a shit as long as they felt they were on the right side of history, even if that turns out to be the side of the Handmaid‘s take. Now that it looks like women aren‘t the pushovers they thought they were, which bodes badly for their historic predictions about right sides, they cover their behind. That is all

Yes this is probably right.

Over on twitter 'Dr' Harrop is disappointed, a sure sign of something good.

"feminist campaigners taking opposing sides.

The Guardian rejects the idea that one of these positions is the right one – and the other wrong. Important questions of personal identity are at stake, but also legal rights and protections. (The rights of trans men are far less controversial because they do not, while transitioning, gain access to spaces designed to protect a disadvantaged group.)"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

WTF

I don't know why they are saying this but it is in polar opposition to what they have been saying for what 2 years or more?

Which is TWAW, women they like to call "cis" should STFU, and of COURSE on uttering the magic words "I am a woman" any man should be able to go anywhere at any time, and choose a female prison, secure psychiatric ward, should they prefer.

In addition, brave new breed of sportswomen doing so well is awesome and brave.

In summary.

I think this is so that they can claim they were "even handed" if /when crimes against women/girls go through the roof and womens sports are fucked and pushed back out of politics business etc as is starting to happen already because with everyone acting ahead of and against the law, how can it be turned back?