Debbie Hayton in The Spectator: Not all transsexuals think ‘trans women are women’

[TimeLady]

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/not-all-transsexuals-think-trans-women-are-women/

Thank you, Debbie. A valuable contribution to the debate.

a relevent and significant thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3364094-Debbie-Hayton-in-the-Times

That's another excellent article from Debbie. Thank you.

Thanks for another eloquent and well-argued article, Debbie.

The trouble with "TWAW" is, it's an inherently confusing expression:

1. the term "trans woman" sounds like it means something different from what it does. For a long time I thought it meant what is actually known as a trans man, and vice versa. Some members of the public who don't follow these things closely probably still think that.
2. the equation sounds as though it ought to be axiomatically true. It presents as adjective plus woman. So in the same way that slim women, elderly women, liberal women, intelligent women, Belgian women "are women", we would expect it to follow automatically that trans women are women. But this is far from automatically obvious in reality, due to the confusing term.

I find myself liking Debbie Hayton more and more. I'd very much like to shake her by the hand. All of the trans people I know irl are Debbies. Calm, logical, honest and accepted. I'm happy to stand with them.

This is good. Thank you Debbie. I wish I had shaken your hand in Truro.

Thanks Debbie

I was very impressed with her performance on Woman's Hour. Will the piece appear in the print copy?

Lots of great points 🙂.

All of the trans people I know irl are Debbies. Calm, logical, honest and accepted. I'm happy to stand with them.

Yup, me too. I have a fair number of trans friends, having long been involved in LGBT rights before the TAs muscled in. I'd say there are three groups of positions amongst my real-life friends:

1. Some are supportive of the proposed GRA reforms and feel a bit hurt that there's opposition, but welcome the debate and are prepared to listen and engage

2. Some have exactly the same reservations about the reforms as I have, and don't want further 'rights' at the expense of (biological) women

3. Some want repeal of the GRA and think the whole thing's got out of hand

All three groups are pretty horrified at the way the trans rights groups are acting and think that they're giving trans people a very bad name.

Thanks Debbie

I'm grateful for the support on this page. I do understand the concern articulated in the thread that R0wantrees identified, which was a reason why I focussed on the idea of trust and confidence in the piece.

Debbie, you were great on Women's Hour. Thanks for being reasonable and prepared to debate.

Supportive comments below the article too, which, in The Spectator terms, is quite a turnaround, as six months ago there would have been a strong misogynistic anti-trans streak.

The one insulting comment just make the person who wrote it look like a complete loser.

I'd say that was a job well done, Debbie.

I also know no Transpeople in real life who think TWAW, in fact some are getting scared of the backlash from all this as they've taken time to build up trust and acceptance in the community.

It's bizzar and clearly not being pushed through for transexuals.

I also do not think this is done for transsexuals, and this is also why Debbie‘s voice is important.

Excellent article