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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

When logic fails & my experience in a relationship with a trans woman

69 replies

idontlikepinkandimstillfemale · 17/10/2018 16:59

I'm writing this to suggest some reasons why women's opinions on self-ID are being excluded, and in case I have experience that others haven't had and it gives some insights. I had a relationship 20 years ago with someone who at the time referred to themselves as a transvestite, but today calls themselves a trans woman (still with male genital organs, as with the majority of self-identified trans women).

Whilst I was with my ex, he openly admitted to me that he would fantasise that we were both lesbians, and I often felt objectified, the clothes I was wearing fetishized, and frankly patronised at times as I was cooed over for displaying any kind of stereotypical feminine behaviour (and I don’t consider myself a particularly feminine woman), all of which made me feel uncomfortable as it was not a reflection of how I feel about my sex, gender or sexuality. It made me feel like a prop in a man’s fantasy, his view of women and our ‘essence’, very much coming from the perspective of the male gaze.

In fact I have always remained on good terms with my ex, but lately I cannot accept the demands of his trans-ideology which requires that I acknowledge as fact that they are a woman, to call them otherwise is hate speech, and thus by extension that I am presumably a lesbian. This is not out of any moral objection, but because it is not true, and in addition doesn’t seem to be driven by any genuine belief on their part that they are a woman, but are getting a sexual kick out of on being called one, as is the case, I believe, with the majority of the most vocal trans women. My lived experience in my own female body as a natal born woman does not appear to be in any way similar to that of this ex-partner. He displays in his confidence to speak out about trans issues all the confidence of the white, male, middle class background that he was raised in, the worst example being when they were ‘transplaining’ to me street harassment as though I, who have lived my entire life as a woman and have experienced this since pubescence, as well as being the victim of a violent sexual assault on the street, couldn’t possibly know what that’s like!

In any case, the reason I believe that any kind of rational discussion fails with this type of trans activism, such as inclusive arguments that the goal posts should change to accept feminine men and masculine women as they are, is because that's not what they ultimately want, they want to be admired and accepted as a woman because that's where their sexual thrill lies, which might be fine if it was consensual, but instead it's being forced on us, with a desire to access all our resources, private spaces, even the language we describe ourselves with so that they can feel not just fully as women, but a kind of untouchable, uber race of women, excelling at us in sport, being named 'Woman of the Year', and taking over positions of responsibility that we've fought for to be led by biological women. It's rape culture, ignoring any kind of ideas of consent and saying we should shut up and go along with it or else be accused of a hate crime. Anyway, I thought I'd share in case this adds anything new the discussion, would love to hear your thoughts.

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PegasusRex · 17/10/2018 17:15

Excellent post - I've been thinking about this recently, but your experience makes it clearer.

I suppose I've been trying to think outside the 'safe space' issues, not because they aren't important but because trans ideology causes women problems all over the shop

idontlikepinkandimstillfemale · 17/10/2018 17:17

Thanks, I'm new here so didn't know if it was too long, but hoped someone would find it interesting.

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OvaHere · 17/10/2018 17:21

Very good points. I think you have analysed a lot of what is happening very well.

Trousered · 17/10/2018 17:31

I don't like pink....

We get it.

We are trying to get this message across. Tricky message to get over. The entire gender "identity" legal push is based on a wholesale cleaning up and presentation as "authentic" of the fetishization you describe so eloquently.

It has been going on for decades. If you listen to Shelia Jeffries speaking at the Jam Jar in Bristol and again at a meeting in Camden she explains the history of this male sex rights political movement.
Someone can share links I imagine.

Not buying it. Of course the chaps are angry that we know what they are up to.

Thank you.

nellieellie · 17/10/2018 17:31

I think this is very interesting. I think that most people have no idea how wide a category the ‘trans’ label is now, not just the people who were termed ‘transexuals’. The sexual motivation for identifying as a woman is no doubt a ‘transphobe’ thing to even mention in the context of proposed invasion of women only spaces.

FermatsTheorem · 17/10/2018 17:38

Idontlikepink - I realise it was 20 years ago, but you might find it interesting to check out the transwidows support thread on here. I think you'll find a lot of women who've been through similar experiences to you.

idontlikepinkandimstillfemale · 17/10/2018 17:40

@Trousered
Yes, exactly! This view is completely absent in the press, due to the predominant narrative of gender dysphoria will gain a lot more sympathy for the trans cause.

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idontlikepinkandimstillfemale · 17/10/2018 17:41

FermatsTheorem - yes thanks, I've already found it, really interesting.

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Trousered · 17/10/2018 17:52

transwidows.com/

I met the women who has put this website together. She is extremely lovely.

Here is another one.
transwidow.wordpress.com/

ifherbumwereabungalow · 17/10/2018 17:56

Excellent post, you've put into words how I feel but what I sometimes struggle to say.

Sohardtochooseausername · 17/10/2018 17:58

This is pretty terrifying.

Trousered · 17/10/2018 18:17

This is pretty terrifying.

Once you get over the shock you realise they have been playing a long game and we have to do the same. This won't go away.

Adult human female - woman.

idontlikepinkandimstillfemale · 17/10/2018 18:19

Sohardtochooseausername - yep, wolves in sheep's clothing, or rather women's. To be fair I don't think my ex is intentionally entitled and self-absorbed, but as far as women's rights go that doesn't matter, it's still an invasion.

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MsJeminaPuddleduck · 17/10/2018 18:21

Do you think that porn culture is increasing the incidence of it - and hence this push now or, was it always there to the same degree but without the public acceptance (so less visible)?

NWQM · 17/10/2018 18:23

Fascinating. Thank-you @idontlikepinkandimstillfemale for sharing your experience.

Trousered · 17/10/2018 18:25

This is an account of the meeting earlier this year which enraged so many....it's all true.

lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2018/03/16/transgenderism-and-the-war-on-women-house-of-commons-14-3-18/

“When members of the oppressor class claim to be the oppressed, and parasitically occupy the bodies of the oppressed, they speak for the oppressed; they demand to be recognised as the oppressed and to enter all sites and discussions set aside for the oppressed, there is no space for women’s liberation….Men’s sexual rights become the focus of what was once the movement for women’s liberation…”
And so began the tour, at turns gruesome and hilarious, of the side of transgenderism not shown in the current media love-fest. Jeffreys took us from the original Beaumont Society where polite retention of ones male genitalia was de rigeur (it now refers to itself as a Transgender Support Group), through to a harsh dose of reality: the fetishism which she believes to be at the basis of the movement.

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 17/10/2018 18:27

Also Idontlikepink, in your ex's case do you think the primary motivation was more re sexual (as in getting off on idea of himself as a woman) or more about the power dynamic (whether this is due to being a superior kind of woman than an actual 'flawed' biological woman/outdoing women or the superiority of being both man and woman)?

More generally does the motivation of these men seem to be more sexual or more power based?

idontlikepinkandimstillfemale · 17/10/2018 18:27

MsJeminaPuddleduck - I think porn culture accounts for a lot, in trans women as well as trans men and was thinking about this only today. I'm 41 but have dated guys around 25 (ahem...) and I honestly find them to be disgusting in the way they treat women, the dating abuse, negging, and the kind of sexual entitlement and sadism they want to dole out. Of course I'm a bit older so I can stand up for myself (a bit), but it wouldn't surprise me with that and all the other pressures that young girls face that they would want to opt out of being a woman completely rather than deal with it. And of course for the trans women it just gives an extreme form of fake femininity to be celebrated.

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idontlikepinkandimstillfemale · 17/10/2018 18:30

Trousered - thanks for sharing, can't wait to have a read.

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MsJeminaPuddleduck · 17/10/2018 18:33

This is REALLY interesting .. sorry I can't stop thinking of questions now. Thank you for sharing

One more question then I'll shut up ..

Do you think he has any self-awareness of how his behaviour/ attitude feels to you/ women in general?

Rebecca36 · 17/10/2018 18:34

You're right, he isn't a woman. I presume you had a sexual relationship with him and when he got his womanly kit off, he was a man.

He can fantasise all he likes but he's a bloke.

idontlikepinkandimstillfemale · 17/10/2018 18:36

MsJeminaPuddleduck - For my ex it seemed more sexual than power based, he wasn't dominant towards me as such, although has a loud personality. For him, to be perfectly honest I think he didn't ever feel adequate as a man. He has a large and well-built body but is incredibly clumsy and not particularly attractive, would get bullied a lot in school for being a bit odd, so I think being a trans woman is a way of him to escape all that, and to gain the protection of those in his community. He's also a bit of an exhibitionist, a performer, and so I think enjoys the attention. In general, I think individual motivation varies, but in some of the very vocal and aggressive trans activists I see more of a power tripping narcissistic streak.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/10/2018 18:36

I think the sex and the power go together - they are parts of the same.

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 17/10/2018 18:38

Humm.. that is scary re younger men's expectations. I'm similar age to you and that seems like a big change in behaviour in a fairly short space of time.

I guess it's porn -and the availability of it plus tinder etc which make sex into a commodity - like deliveroo-ing (new verb) your dinner?

Makes me fear for my goddaughter (12) and even my daughter who's still tiny (will it be better or even worse by then?)

littlecabbage · 17/10/2018 18:40

Really interesting (and depressing) insight, thank you.

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