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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Full page advert in Metro

273 replies

Bespin · 17/10/2018 08:12

Check out @stonewalluk’s Tweet: twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1052446619491336192?s=09

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QuentinWinters · 18/10/2018 22:20

I work for a client facing company, we would get agreement from clients that we were allowed to publicise the relationship in marketing and then use as we saw fit.
We would probably then get agreement for specific adverts.
But that advert is so vague, no company would say no unless they'd been following the debate closely. They would just think "well yeah, obvs trans rights are human rights" and be fine with it.

Needmoresleep · 18/10/2018 23:08

Virgin Money have endorsed an advert by a lobbying organisation that links directly to a clear and specific position on a Government consultation.

Are banks allowed to support political lobbying organisations in this way or does that go beyond a normal remit? Is it worth a complaint to the FCA? Does any one know what locus could be used.

Datun · 19/10/2018 07:01

I wonder if those companies know how homophonic Stonewall's support of transgenderism is?

That homosexuality now no longer means same sex attraction.

And that two men engaged in fellatio is lesbian sex if they identify as women.

Because most people have no idea how much Stonewall have abandoned their raison d'être in favour of transgenderism.

Bowlofbabelfish · 19/10/2018 08:28

I work for a client facing company, we would get agreement from clients that we were allowed to publicise the relationship in marketing and then use as we saw fit.
We would probably then get agreement for specific adverts.

That’s interesting. I wonder where the ‘fault’ lies if a government department has its logo used to illegally promote a specific position of a consultation like this.

borntobequiet · 19/10/2018 08:38

I got an automated response from P&G followed by a personal one saying they were sorry to hear of my concerns and needed to go to another dept to get more detail. They will be getting back to me.
I suspect that good customer relations with women is more important for a company that knows its main customers are women than it is for GCHQ and other public bodies. (Ocado being the glaring exception to this.)

Needmoresleep · 19/10/2018 14:38

My response to Virgin Money:

"Thank you for your prompt reply.

I would first like to correct an inaccuracy. Stonewall was established to campaign for Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual rights, albeit often working alongside transgender charities. Only in 2015 did Stonewall announce a plan to campaign for trans-equality despite having previously maintained "a strict distinction between sexual orientation and gender identity." This has caused a profound change in the organisation which has seemed to move rapidly from the positivity and the openness that the rainbow flag symbolises, to a "Transwomen are Women" #no debate. I think it is reasonable to suggest that not all members of the Stonewall trans-advisory board are people whose personal or Twitter histories would withstand much scrutiny, one example being Aimee Challenor who, until she resigned a month or two ago, was under investigation by the Green Party.

As you acknowledge, a conflict exists between transgenderism and sex-based women’s rights, and it is right for these issues to be debated respectfully. The rapid change in Stonewall's policy and approach is attracting criticism from both inside and out, this petition being one example: www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach There is a genuine concern that Stonewall, through its training, advice services and Workplace Equality Index, wields significant power across both in the public and corporate sectors, without the organisation itself being subject to any effective checks and balances.

I also think you are being disingenuous. You say that you are not partisan on specific recommendations that Stonewall have made - you are passionate about fairness, equality and inclusion for everyone. Yet you allowed your corporate logo to be used on a high profile National advertisement which linked directly to obviously partisan advice. If you have a genuinely neutral stance, and given your expertise is in providing banking services, I can't see why you should not, you could have withheld your support, insisted that the link was to the Government's consultation, or insisted that a balancing second link was made perhaps to Fair Play for Women.

This matters. My mother, your customer is vulnerable. You know this because you allowed me to be registered as her Attorney. As someone with dementia it is important that my mother is able to access intimate care form people she believes are women, rather than people who self-identify as women, so that she can retain her trust and dignity. Equally people with dementia lose their filters, and one not-uncommon sign of this is sexual dis-inhibition. Those working in elderly care are used to f ensuring that vulnerable people are protected, at times by taking steps to ensure that sleeping accommodation for male bodied people is separate from that for female bodied people.

I hope you can understand why I am so disappointed by your organisation's public endorsement of the link to the Stonewall GRA consultation guidance. Inter alia I hope you will be able to consider ways in which your passion for fairness, equality and inclusion can be applied to considering how to help older people overcome barriers to accessing secure banking services in the internet age.

I look forward to a reply,"

Lets see if I get one. I did get a few of my favourite rants in. Not least access to banking services for the elderly are shite...

And though I have got cross about a lot of stuff recently this one has made me particularly cross. Transgender seems a so much more fashionable cause than the elderly. Pips Bunce in a frock etc. Inclusiveness in the financial sector needs to go a lot further.

PersonWithAVulva · 19/10/2018 19:41

Lovely ad, and I can't see any disagreeing with it.

Sadly TRAs are protesting because of ads placed. I can't believe they disagree with this, transphobic trash!

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2018 01:09

Sonia Poulton @ soniapoulton
What about Stonewall's ad that followed in Metro this week? The one where marketing executives of big brands say they didn't realise they were being used for Self-ID propaganda & felt bullied not to be 'transphobic'. Are TAs upset because they know the Stonewall ad is a crock?

Well wouldn't you know.

It's amazing isn't it?

Full page advert in Metro
PersonWithAVulva · 20/10/2018 02:48

And why is noone asking why Stonewall is not funding refuges for transpeople with the money they have spent on the Metro advert?

Great point!

OvaHere · 20/10/2018 09:22

Seems like many of these orgs were caught off guard then. I doubt any will come out and publicly condemn the tactic but behind closed doors might be a different story.

JoanSummers · 20/10/2018 10:21

I think probably companies like Tesco etc won't want to call Stonewall out in case of retaliation.

However can pressure not be put on GCHQ (among others)? As they have been misled and used, by a lobby group, to influence the result of a government consultation with the public. Which is embarrassing and should be a warning to them that they need to be more careful in future what they support, and also surely raises question marks over the validity of the consultation too?

It's got to the point that whenever I see anyone in the public eye start talking about trans equality I can't help thinking of cake:

JessHopeThinks · 20/10/2018 10:45

Did people read this article in Private Eye about Linda Riley- the woman who owns Diva Magazine- that paid for and arranged the advert?

i.imgur.com/olOQlzd.jpg

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2018 10:54

I doubt any will come out and publicly condemn the tactic but behind closed doors might be a different story.

Oh indeed.

It was an overreach and abuse of position.

All this has been and still is a series of over reaches in an attempt to power grab and to control others in a less than transparent and honest fashion.

It'd be interesting to catalogue them all.

Trump would congratulate them.

BigotedWoman · 20/10/2018 10:57

Thanks for that Jess.

AngryAttackKittens · 20/10/2018 11:00

Now that is interesting about Riley. More and more it becomes clear that there's a core set of people pushing this bollocks, and they all have close ties to each other.

Bowlofbabelfish · 20/10/2018 11:15

I hadn’t. Haven’t read this week or last week.

Very interesting

breastfeedingclownfish · 20/10/2018 11:22

Fuck sake.

littlbrowndog · 20/10/2018 11:30

Yeps

They like a pack of spiders with big webs but they are the core
And the woke idiots in politics and government are entangled

Popchyk · 20/10/2018 11:46

That is very interesting about Linda Riley, Jess.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 20/10/2018 11:55

However can pressure not be put on GCHQ

I have emailed my MP, Penny Mordaunt and the Women and Equalities committee about GCHQ and IPO putting their logo on that ad.

it is absolutely unacceptable for government institutions to be attempting to influence the outcome of a government consultation.

OvaHere · 20/10/2018 12:11

Very Interesting Private Eye piece about Riley.

All these awards ceremonies are nothing more than self congratulatory, political networking and lobbying events.

Shady as fuck.

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2018 13:27

Are any of these legal firms or offer legal advice?

They may fall under the Solicitors Regulation Authority for interfering in a public consultation.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 24/10/2018 21:38

had 2 replies to my emails today

  1. very disappointing reply from AON basically saying, yes we knew about the context of the ad and we're happy with it. They're basically a b2b firm, so quite hard for me to boycott!

  2. much more promising - email from my MP who says:

I tend not to favour political causes (any causes) being espoused by public bodies, including schools and the like, so I will be interested to look into it.

I’ll write to the Home Office in the first instance, as this has police/fire/GCHQ etc, and will ask them to come back to what you have set out for me below.

so I will be really interested to see what he comes back with.

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