DD hinting at being trans, I'm horrified but I need a specific piece of assistance please

[PeggyGuggenheim]

I've been aware of the trans disaster brewing for several years, alerted by rad fem friends almost a decade ago.

I'm now living the nightmare as my pre-teen daughter is heavily hinting to me that she thinks she may be trans.

I haven't handled it perfectly; she's always known my views so it's naturally very difficult but we have a strong relationship so we're just about managing, as long as we stay off The Subject.

However, I obviously can't just bury my head in the sand. She watches a lot of YouTube, and is on Instagram where she follows plenty trans people, so I am at a distinct disadvantage.

The specific help I need, is to be able to show her / share with her, some material that offers a counter-view to the one she is consuming.

I know there is LOTS out there for gender critical parents and I can quote chapter and verse on all the reasons why the trans ideology is harmful - but none of the sites out there are suitable to share with her.

The tone of voice of these sites is very often angry, exasperated, withering, with huge amounts of sarcasm and irony. Absolutely guaranteed to harden her in her thinking.

All the trans stuff online is so happy and fluffy and affirming, I know it's an unequal contest because what can we offer as a corrective?

Statistically she is most likely to turn out to be gay which is obviously fine but somehow "trans trumps gay" in the kids' minds now. So I can try to find cool lesbian novels / comics / sitcoms but I don't know how effective these will be.

I think other parents will be seeking this too. And for anyone else going through it, I feel your pain intensely because it is an utter, utter nightmare.

Thanks

PS everything crossed that Women's Hour manages to cover this properly tomorrow!!!!!

Don't you think our parents had this fear 50 years ago ? only then the word was Lesbian and gay
many of our parents were telling us it was a phase we were all going through

well I have known I was a lesbian 52 years , took the flack at school because I had crushes on other girls

I don't think our parents were worried about me being a lesbian , they were concerned at what other people would think !

Or my mother not having any grandchildren

it is quite scarey the young girls having access to Non Binary/DemiBoi,s or F2M,s on youtube , I suspect this has something to do with boys hitting on these girls, and the girls rejecting the life being forced apon them , like our parents had done asking if we had boyfriends, talking about when we would be married and how wonderful our husbands would be, I just didnt fancy that or ending up like my mother

with all these F2M/DEMIBOI bloggers encouraging girls , to rebel its the new black ! over the years I have counelled many girls who were just being rebels, and allowed them to come to their own conclusion they werent Lesbians , we have tried talking girls out of this course of action today , they wont listen !

I dare say if the Internet had been around 50 years ago I might have considered it ,purely to piss my parents off, especially after reading about Amazonian women who had one breast removed to be able to pull their bows back further, and especially after reading The Well Of Loneliness , and I did have one Amazonian Axe earring in , specifically to Piss my parents off and went to Gay Liberation conferences and demo,s pre Pride

just don't make a big deal about it , working on the gay switchboard decades ago we had lots of girls claiming they were boys/lesbians, most of them have grown up to be quite rounded women

having looked at the likes of Ash Hardells video,s , in our opinion this is a silly little girl most of the other bloggers seem to warn these kids to avoid Transgender Trend or the likes

my parents tried to stop me getting a short feather cut , wearing tonic trousers check Ben Sherman with braces and Monkey Boots , when they should have encouraged me, as clearly I was just rebelling , thankfully I have ripped up all those photo,s and can laugh about how silly and stupid I was

If you want a cool lesbian role model, you might want to look into the vids of Arielle Scarcella -they discuss lesbian sex rather openly and also have trans people on. It is not a critique of transgenderism, but presents lesbianism as a cool thing that can stand on it own.
The vids might be too sexualized at times? You might need to check.
Arielle was accused of transphobia by some TRAs for saying lesbians don‘t do dick, I believe, and has a video up there for her alleged transphobia. Even though she has vids with (sane) transwomen as interview partners...
i have only Seen a couple of vids, where Arielle came across as sane, holding her ground as lesbian but not GC (a tad too woke for my taste?). Check it out, maybe it is something for your daughter to widen her perspective without alienating her?

Youtube is a cespit of low quality videos. Try to get her to TV shows or documentaries of a subject she likes. Does she likes animals? A shelter or getting a pet might help, especially one that needs lots of walking.

As for shows, try Everything Sucks! on Netflix but don't let her google what it's about it spoils the show's surprise.

Don't panic! She is still very young, which means that you have more chance of weeding out inappropriate influences before her critical thinking is in place.

Block the unhelpful stuff. There are great apps which will do this. You don't have to link this to trans. Just say 'we are all spending too much time online in this family and need to try doing other things'. Try to put your own phone away if you use it a lot.

Luckily, she is young enough for you to strongly encourage her into sport. It will be a lot more difficult as she gets older.

Does she have a real life lesbian role model? I would try to seek one out if that's at all possible.

She's a pre-teen so that's 12 at the oldest. Forget lesbian role models and sassy lesbians on YouTube. She's a child, let her be a child, sports/horses/something active would be a million times better than yet more stuff inappropriate for her age range.
I was a 12 year old lesbian, I remember seeking out information on lesbians but the vast majority of my thoughts were on regular things like school, my family, etc. I didn't need any adult interference in any direction, if I'd been subjected to some of the trans cult I'd have ended up a short bearded and scarred person for sure.
Twelve is young, even these days. Cut the internet, change her school if you have to, or even move. No YouTube talking heads, no Tumblr, no Instagram, and no Facebook. If her mates are all on social media she needs to make new mates.
All I wanted aged twelve was to know my parents still loved me. I didn't need role models - maybe later but not at twelve.

turph you are right, preteen is too young for that YouTube stuff. How about sports, joining a girl soccer Team or so? Or climbing? Anything that makes her feel good about her body, because this body achieves something and possibly brings her in touch with girls, who also don‘t have the stereotypical girl interests...

Roll models isn’t about sealing out YouTube (although be well informed along with the detrans stories for when necessary) but just bringing these things into family life. All Kids need examples not only of how to be a good straight woman and man from (likely) mum and dad figures and the usual pop culture/music on the radio/tv presenters and actors the family listen too and so on. If mum listens to Patti Smith and watches Lea DeLaria comedy and watches Ellen’s talk show (however much I can’t stand her) and plenty of other examples within normal day to day life of lesbian women who know they are women and are just great that way then it is easier to accept that being a lesbian and/gnc is normal and ok and not a sign of being trans. This should be something all of us should do as standard, a long with gnc and/or gay male influences.

Get her off bloody YouTube and the internet (my 11 and 9 year olds aren't allowed on unless with me) and find out WHY she's thinking like she does. Redirecting her to other activities won't get to the root of the thought processes that's got her here.
I'm already talking to mine about biology and how it's impossible to change sex. Luckily they think the whole trans thing is crazy anyway and know that girls can whatever they want. What gender stereotypes is she exposed to that might be influencing her? Does she see women as inferior or weak at all and has internalised that life would be easier as a boy? Is she fearful of puberty? Sounds like you need to sit down and have a good chat as she's hinting to get a reaction.

Talk to her about her feelings.

WE all know that during puberty it's normal to be in turmoil about who and what we are but teenagers don't always know that. They see 'cool' people who they believe everything is fine for, so if they can be like the cool person all their emotions will suddenly align and settle down.

I wanted to be a boy when I was about 10/11. That is I didn't want my body to grow boobs and start bleeding, I liked riding my bike and wearing jeans, had nan electronics set and I could see boys had more opportunities, and that's what I really wanted. This was in the 1970s. I never wanted children.

Now I want to abolish gender completely. I don't care what you wear as long as it is suitable for the environment you are in, I don't care what you eat, about your make up, your nails.

I care that people are kind, helpful, not bullies.

Look at the twitter feed of some on the TRAs, Lily Madigan springs to mind, does she think that person is happy? Is Lily a nice person? Is Lily angry?

And depending on her age and your relationship, tell her about multiple orgasms. I mean who in their right mind would trade that in?

I think everyone else here is right: biggest problem is that trans is currently "cool." I remember myself at that age and some parent telling me what was not cool when I knew it was, well, that just proved how totally out of it they were.

So I don't know about trying to deal with it head on, as in "don't transition." Definitely don't agree to anything permanent or harmful (binders), but don't fight the trans stuff itself.

The most powerful demotivator at that age is being uncool. If one of the side effects of puberty blockers, for instance, is pimples, I could see that being a big talking point. (Don't know what the side effects are, I just mean try to find things along those lines. 12 year olds don't care that a lifetime of sex hormones will turn their bones to mush. But they care something fierce about how they look. Usually.)

But I think the biggest talking point might be going to the root of the matter. In my experience the attraction of being a boy is you can tell yourself you'll avoid the wall of sexism looming in front of you. I'd tell her she's right. It's a horrible wall. It makes perfect sense to want to avoid it. The "cool" trans way doesn't actually work though. What does work is realizing you're fine as you are. And then talk some more about the detransitioners and what they've understood after it all.

Anyway, just thinking out loud. The hard part is making it work, which is what you're doing. Good luck on your quest and all best wishes!

Peach Yogurt?

Sorry peach yogurt did a good film of her growing up gender non conforming.

Tanith Lloyd is good - unfortunately she may not be glam or trendy enough though.

Cara delavigne was very much rocking in a tux at the royal wedding, a la Marlene deitrich but I've no idea if that's helpful or not.

Definitely monitor online access and restrict social media access. It's such a huge waste of her time and is basically filling her head with rubbish and causing anxiety (there's plenty of research about this now.) Change screen time for something more constructive - games, puzzles, or something creative. What does she enjoy? Is she musical? She really needs to be busy and distracted!

Other hobbies to consider are cycling (BMX, mtb, track etc.) or skateboarding. Track is a good one as there are some very positive role models. Are there any skate parks around? That's a nicely alternative scene, but could lead to a real life tribe rather than a virtual one. Anything physical will help both by getting out in to the fresh air and away from screen but also by releasing endorphins which should go some way making her feel good about herself. Nobody ever felt good about themselves after an hour clicking around on Instagram!

For some ideas about online safety there are some really good classes you can take as a parent. Try this one on Udemy:
www.udemy.com/how-to-keep-your-children-safe-online/

Reassure her that whatever she is feeling is normal. Many girls & boys approaching puberty feel similar things, they may not talk about it to each other though, so she may feel that this is something special she is feeling. I don't think school/society prepare kids enough for adolescence - it is shit, you will feel like shit, you will feel confused and like an alien - it is all perfectly normal. Social media has given another explanation - you might be trans, and if you transition you'll feel better. Encourage her to not stick a label on herself as labels are unhelpful. Ask to see some of the things she is watching and try and question (gently, you don't want to alienate her) some of the messages. Ask her how someone knows they're trans. What if they think they are, but they're not? Try to get her talking about her feelings and find out where they stem from - there will be something that's troubling her, the hardest thing is to find out what it is. She may not even know herself. Good luck. This won't be easy for you. Been there. Done that.

If mum listens to Patti Smith and watches Lea DeLaria comedy and watches Ellen’s talk show (however much I can’t stand her) and plenty of other examples within normal day to day life of lesbian women who know they are women and are just great that way then it is easier to accept that being a lesbian and/gnc is normal and ok and not a sign of being trans. This should be something all of us should do as standard, a long with gnc and/or gay male influences.
I'm cringing just reading that. Needless to say I disagree. This focus on visibility means finding a handful of lesbians that can fulfil the role model requirements. What about those of us who didn't have a talk show host to "look up to"? We are mostly alright. What if you can't find anyone the child thinks is cool enough? Especially having been on Instagram, I bet the aesthetic standards are impossible for most if not all GNC women to meet. Nothing less cool than someone who doesn't quite make the grade - or someone your mum thinks is cool.
That child needs to be weaned off of internet grooming and given something positive and healthy to focus on (ie not herself!)
If she meets, sees or encounters positive lesbian role models then great, but she's a child and might not even be gay...

I would love to know how to block out YouTube at router level- how is that possible please?? Does that mean is can’t be viewed on any devices served by your home router? What happens away from the home?

Having a variety of influences of gnc is helpful for all children, male female lesbian or otherwise. It’s about seeing there’s a lot more than just the standard straight white feminine woman pushed by social convention. Just because those that don’t have these influences are fine doesn’t mean it isn’t helpful to have for all children. And Ellen imho is hardly cool, and I doubt Patti Smith has ever cared about cool either way. It’s about seaking out the many different ways to be a woman within culture as well as day to day life, who are not pushed into a box by the transagenda.

I don't have any advice for op but for all those who say restrict Internet you are not living in the real world. My 12 year old has restrictions on her phone and tablet but if a secondary school everyone around her will have phones and Internet so taking it off her phone tablet will only lead to her looking at other people's phones and looking for other ways to watch stuff. I have talked to my daughter about her use of YouTube but stopped short of deleting it because I'd have to also delete all Internet browsers which she needs for school, and also I think if you ban something you are encouraging them to be secretive rather than open with you.

It always occurs to me that without the internet society would be so very different. There would still likely still be a few outliers but I seriously doubt very many people would conclude they were trans of their own accord within a vacuum and with no external influence.

My 12 year old has restrictions on her phone and tablet but if a secondary school everyone around her will have phones and Internet so taking it off her phone tablet will only lead to her looking at other people's phones and looking for other ways to watch stuff.
How long is her lunch break? 45mins? An hour? Do they plan in 3x15 mins vids of do they prefer one 30min and a discussion afterwards?
OP was talking about grooming on YouTube and Instagram, I think that's going to take more than a being huddled round a phone at lunchtime.
These content creators depend on their viewers being alone when consuming that content (so the narrative isn't broken by someone saying "shut up Riley" halfway through the polemic). They also depend on drip feeding and constant updates.
Again, someone else's phone at lunch break? Not really the same as hours on your own on a tablet or laptop, watching vids, looking at Tumblr feeds, chatting etc.
The internet is a massive time thief. And I wouldn't normally be so direct but telling me I'm not living in the real world is unnecessarily patronising. If you choose to throw your hands up in the air because your daughter needs internet browsers for school, that's up to you. I'm still free to advise the OP to get her child offline and away from that destructive inappropriate nonsense.

cisgender 11YO rips gender apart. Luffs her!

Andtheresaw please don’t use the word cis.

Sorry if I've missed it but does she say that she wants 'boys' clothes, haircut, name, activities? That doesn't make her a man/boy - this was my sister when we were kids.

The Internet and social media is definitely the first thing I'd remove. I've seen some of the things she may be looking at and it's very very melodramatic, emotionally blackmailing, nasty stuff. The main messages are that of you are unhappy then the answer is trans. You can only be happy if you trans. You will become the beautiful butterfly if you trans. It's easy. You will die of you don't.

I'd make sure that she sees some kick ads female role models of all types - from smart super models (I'm sure there are some) to gymnasts (Simone Bales is dynamite)

Sorry pressed too soon - Simon Biles, sports (womens footie), artists, writers, poets, actresses, engineers, mathematicians...

She should aspire to be something, not focus on the physical body and later on her sexuality. It shouldn't define her - I'm seeing kids self-defining by their physical presentation - this is the trend.