DD hinting at being trans, I'm horrified but I need a specific piece of assistance please

[PeggyGuggenheim]

I've been aware of the trans disaster brewing for several years, alerted by rad fem friends almost a decade ago.

I'm now living the nightmare as my pre-teen daughter is heavily hinting to me that she thinks she may be trans.

I haven't handled it perfectly; she's always known my views so it's naturally very difficult but we have a strong relationship so we're just about managing, as long as we stay off The Subject.

However, I obviously can't just bury my head in the sand. She watches a lot of YouTube, and is on Instagram where she follows plenty trans people, so I am at a distinct disadvantage.

The specific help I need, is to be able to show her / share with her, some material that offers a counter-view to the one she is consuming.

I know there is LOTS out there for gender critical parents and I can quote chapter and verse on all the reasons why the trans ideology is harmful - but none of the sites out there are suitable to share with her.

The tone of voice of these sites is very often angry, exasperated, withering, with huge amounts of sarcasm and irony. Absolutely guaranteed to harden her in her thinking.

All the trans stuff online is so happy and fluffy and affirming, I know it's an unequal contest because what can we offer as a corrective?

Statistically she is most likely to turn out to be gay which is obviously fine but somehow "trans trumps gay" in the kids' minds now. So I can try to find cool lesbian novels / comics / sitcoms but I don't know how effective these will be.

I think other parents will be seeking this too. And for anyone else going through it, I feel your pain intensely because it is an utter, utter nightmare.

Thanks

PS everything crossed that Women's Hour manages to cover this properly tomorrow!!!!!

Even if you separate her from social media, the children at my dd's school are hyper aware of trans, really from Year 7 but especially Year 8 (12/13) onwards. Girls in her year have been announcing they are bi or trans for a while now. It's a fashion, and my 12 year old is extremely knowledgeable about it even though it's not her thing and doesn't watch videos about it.

I don't think that means that you shouldn't have some limits at 11/12 on internet usage, however, being realistic, this will only be for another couple of years (then they start using their internet enabled phone, searching at friends houses, the library during 'study' etc) and the narrative about trans is embedded before that.

I'm sorry I don't know how to help more, I know I wouldn't react very well to this as I've brought my children up to be girls who are not necessarily conforming and I'd be sad if it went in that direction (though once they are 16+, they can really chose their direction in life).

I was going to suggest girls' football too - show her there's a wide range of ways in which to be a girl.

Otherwise I think you have to ride it out as with any other teen troubles by staying supportive by refusing to allow anything irreversible, dangerous or medical under 18. Clothes, hair pronouns and even an unofficial name change are not the end of the world and allow space for her to figure out if it's really that good of an idea.
I disagree. Your name is a fundamental part of who you are. You think a young preteen child won't be affected by becoming someone else? Negotiate their outward appearance by all means, bearing in mind you're the parent. But don't change their name or do a "social transition". You don't even know what the problem is yet!
And unmonitored YouTube use for someone of that age?

I may have missed how old she is? For around 14+ I'd recommend Girl Mans Up by M-E Girard - it's a great novel about a girl figuring out what it means to be butch. She does consider the trans angle briefly but comes down firmly on the side of "I am a woman and this is how I dress, act, work etc". Her parents are religious, so it doesn't go down well with them and she leaves home, but her big brother is awesome and helps her figure it all out. www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B019C3S8QI/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforum-21

If you want to look at bisexuality with a fairly GNC main character, Leah On The Offbeat by Becky Albertelli is great. It's the follow-up to Simon vs The Homo Sapiens Agenda (the recent film was called Love, Simon). My dd12 really enjoyed them (I do read virtually everything she does, mind, it's part of my job!).

Re internet access I'd consider blocking Tumblr outright, monitor Pintrest and YouTube use and try an app like ScreenTime. Works ok for us so far.

Peach yoghurt on You Tube - I think Lily Maynard links to them.

Read the parents articles on the GIDS website - there is some sound advice on there (although the transition stuff will scare you witless).

gids.nhs.uk/parents

I also think you should do all you can to monitor and control internet access. The Gender Critical Support group linked to above has some great resources for that sort of thing.

Both my teen girls do 2 hours of sport every day Mon-Fri, one is a long distance runner and also does long jump and triple jump in the Spring and the other is a rower and competes in regattas year round. Sport also has been shown to protect girls from eating disorders and I'm sure body dysmorphia.

Being a pre-teen she can change her mind in the future - I'd leave it for the time being, it might be a phase, don't you think?

I really like 'Danish Girl' movie - it is very sad though so I don't know if you'd like to consider watching it together. If you've not seen it yourself, watch on your own first before you decide if it's suitable/helpful for your situation.

I think the movie shows very well that changing sex doesn't bring immediate happiness. Or any happiness for that matter.

Lili, the main character, dies of complications from the surgery in the end of the movie. It is sad as I say but also beautiful.

What a useful and heartrending story. Every mum (and dad) with a gender-uncertain child should read this.

lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2017/11/06/my-first-article-a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia/

I don’t experience of this so I might not be much help but

It seems to me your DD has a social media issue, not a trans issue. She needs to do more, be more, find a bit more purpose. You are right to stay off the subject - get her completely off the subject.

You are in danger of her rebelling into transing. Forget trans issues. Get her to take up horses or playing the guitar.

Absolutely get her off the internet. My dds are 11 and 13. Neither is allowed to browse online without supervision. They don’t any recreational time online, other than maybe using the internet to watch Dr Who. They might use it, supervised, for homework. There is absolutely no way I would allow such a young child to look at some of the stuff out there, honestly I would have believed I was trans if I’d seen some of that stuff at 11.
So I would ban any internet browsing , you are in charge, just stop allowing it.

If you want to show her something counter to the narrative , then have a look at Peachy Yogurt’s films like “trans bicycle” . My daughters watched this with me and really laughed. Magdalen Burns has made some brilliant videos but they are too old for your daughter, ok for older teenagers though.
Here is the trans bicycle. m.youtube.com/watch?v=yNIHdWyUsEY
I sympathise, a friend’s teenager is going through the same thing, but your daughter is young enough for you to stop her being exposed to this agenda.

Maybe show her this programme about a 14 year old detransitioning male
m.youtube.com/watch?v=uf0sz3XZyaw
It's from the wonderful Ally Missandry youtube channel.
Youtuber Carey Callaghan is a female detransitioner, but she's older.

I disagree. Your name is a fundamental part of who you are. You think a young preteen child won't be affected by becoming someone else? Negotiate their outward appearance by all means, bearing in mind you're the parent. But don't change their name or do a "social transition". You don't even know what the problem is yet!

You are right. I probably worded that badly. I was thinking further down the line if the DD insisted on a trans identity and wasn't dissuaded those are all things that can be reversed easily which would be my line in the sand for a minor.

I take your point about the name though - I imagine it helps in these situations if someone has a neutral name or one that can be shortened to start with.

I didn't mean those were things the OP should do or suggest to her DD, I realise the DD isn't at that stage as of now and maybe will never get there.

There was some just advice on transgender kids, who knows best. It was on bbc1 and it looked at the work of Dr zucker.
From memory it was about doing loads of gender neutral activities. Girls can climb trees etc.

I would absolutely turn off you tube.

Good luck x

OP if you want some ideas on how to change internet use and reduce internet time - we have Microsoft family which sends me a report on the web sites and searches my daughter has done this week. We have also set up her Microsoft account so that it shuts down after a certain amount of time (it gives her a warning). If she still needs it for something legit I can give her more time. Plus child filters. This is all with her agreement after some conversations (but basically we said this is important and we know best). But it has normalised shorter internet time and was a good idea once we set it up. She just naturally starts doing something else when her MS account locks her out. She's pre teen too. Good luck.

Oh my gosh - I've just watched the beginning of Patrick's story - how heartbreaking. I cannot believe it is so easy for twelve year olds to be prescribed such life changing drugs like that. What a lovely, lovely boy he seems. I'm not sure I can watch to the end - I hope there is a happy outcome.

Honestly - anybody reading this - DO NOT give your young children unrestricted access to the internet. Block all that Reddit. Tumblr, YT stuff - it is so seductive. Social contagion is a massive issue here - this labelling yourself trans/enby/whatever is right on trend.

Good luck OP.

You need to cut her off from the source. She's being groomed.

I know that's easier said than done with a teenager and I would have gone batshit at that age, but please don't doubt this is social contagion, she's getting this from her friends and/or the internet, and you need to get her away from this cult.

Here's a powerful story from a desister: 4thwavenow.com/2018/03/12/baptised-in-fire-a-relieved-desisters-story/

What else is she interested in?

Does she have friends who are not into this?

What are you doing at half term? Can you spend some time away together? Or send her off to a relative she likes at half term? (But not somewhere like Brighton or Leeds, she may come back having transitioned!)

Try getting her interested in horses. Riding schools often allow kids to help out at weekends in return for rides. She will benefit hugely from just bring around/looking after them even if she doesn't fancy riding.

Can you sneak in great gnc and/or lesbian role models? Patti Smith or Lea DeLaria? And maybe the likes of gnc men also- Lou Reed, Nicky Wire.

I’d say horse riding also, doesn’t matter what her body looks like, doesn’t matter if she developes breasts early or doesn’t have enough of them. It’s a great sport for girls especially to access as it is one of the few that doesn’t get dropped when puberty hits and body consciousness kicks in. It teaches girls how strong their bodies are to be able to control such a strong animal, is a sport where they are equal to men (which is likely why we aren’t seeing an influx of trans women eventers as it would be validat their identy as a woman) and galloping a big beautiful horse really makes a girl feel powerful within herself and her body. Horses, like dogs, know whose female and whose not (openly terfs) and often horses respond much better to women, which again can be a real boost. All the work that goes with them, the mucking out and filling haynets and traipsing round muddy fields takes emphasis of off appearance and taking care of an animal that way often helps us recognise our own bodies needs. I know people get put off by cost but often it isn’t that much if you look around, I found a local stables for £12 for 30mins lessons and they are way better than many expensive stables. Some will run through pony club so kids can join without owning their own horse and many exchange work for lessons or loan out horses part time over winter. There are often great tribes of misfits at stables also, so finding others like herself to help put things into context may help also.

Hope that makes sense through the typos

Plus Google for other youtubes with the keyword detransition - there's loads out there from young people who realised they were being railroaded into a massive mistake.

What CatWithARabbit and VMisaMarshmallow said.

Zero room for navel-gazing when you’re dealing with large animals that occasionally mistake a carrier bag in a hedge for a predator.

Another person here who is shocked that your PRE-teen has access to this stuff.

Assuming she doesn’t have a smart phone at under 12yrs you need to get rid of whatever tablet she is using to access this stuff. You’re the adult and it’s hugely inappropriate for a young child to be watching this content and having Instagram!

Christ.

Agree with PPs about hobbies, anything outside of that bubble to distract her / realise that she can be 'into' without it being related to gender identity. Lily Maynard / 4th wave now and Peach Yoghurt as alternative youtube, yes.
I have a boy of similar age and enamoured with the idea of trans. He's never fitted in with other boys and enjoyed girls' toys, clothes and company. I've just been really straight with him and said that it's impossible for someone to actually change sex. I've talked about how regressive trans ideology is and isn't it better to just be yourself but not be bound by sex / gender stereotypes. That there's nothing wrong with him liking 'girl things' and that absolutely does not mean that there's anything wrong with his body he does not have to change it or pretend to be anyone else: to pretend he likes boy things or to pretend he is a girl. He has since shown an interest in football (or maybe footballers? or the drama of the world cup? not sure), but is more excited by Strictly than anyone else I know.
The approach of puberty is a scary time for a girl; I wanted to be a boy when i was your daughter's age too. It just felt like everything would be easier. But let her know that she's perfect as she is, be she girly or butch or bits of both.

Oh, I though you said she was a teenager! A pre-teen?

You're in charge here. Stop letting her have any access at all to the internet without you being able to see the screen.

Limit her time. Know what she's on.

Ban tumbler, Youtube and Instagram. Just do it. You can set this at your router level or with a kids safe package.

Who provides your internet? We can help you do this if you let us know who your ISP is. Or, just ring them up or look at their website for help on keeping kids safe online.

And yes, find her some activities stat.

What does she like?