What am I?

[captainproton]

I am female but I work in a traditionally male role. I don’t wear a wedding ring because it would get damaged. I am tall and wear men’s clothes because they fit on the arms better, and they have pockets for my pens/screwdrivers etc.

I decided long ago that I wanted to present androgynous at work/life so as not to be judged by a female appearance. Having grown up around males who never held me back I have emulated the way they operated through life. I wanted the opportunities males had and the fun life they had (if you like the smell and hum of machinery) and went for it. Yes I have come across sexism and been groped by dick heads. But not in over a decade (since I stopped being sexually attractive I suppose). Being tall I can look men in the eye or down on them if they are short. I have a quick wit and will use it against any man who thinks I do the cleaning at home and my husband the diy.

I don’t wear bras if I can help it, nor make-up or heels. My personal grooming mirrors that of men. If men are required by social standards to deplete their hair in that area then so do I. That basically just means I take care of facial hair and anything that might show when swimming.

I am a mother and I have breastfed and am proud of my body for these things. It’s about the only time I felt proud of my body. And believe me I have wished I was born male because it’s hard sometimes being the only female and facing really big hurdles to be accepted.

what am I in this modern world? I stand at the school gates and listen to a female world discussing hair, nails, makeup and now it seems eyebrows? I have never taken a selfie in my life. I find it all so vain and tbh pointless. And I am lost. I am more comfortable around men, and I don’t flirt with them. Although I did meet my husband at work but that was long ago and took 6 years to develop. Our discussions at work revolve around things like “are the lunar landings real”.

Btw if it’s relevant I am very concerned about safeguarding issues around self ID.

A female friend of mine said once that my small circle of mum friends found me endearing because I literally couldn’t give a shit about what I wore and looked like.

Because I consciously dress in men’s clothes and choose to follow the social rules that apply to men. Does it make me a trans man?

I am confused now and I wasn’t before. I feel like a rabbit hole has opened up, I thought I was part of the females trying to even the playing field, an example to my daughters but now I am no longer sure!

You’re a woman, OP

I'm a very feminine looking woman but growing up in wanted to be a man. Why wouldn't I want to be Indiana Jones, rather than Indiana Jone's girlfriend?!
I wear make up and heels and love clothes but I'm not interested in beauty parlours or selfies. I love astronomy and classic cars and steam trains, but I can spend all day shopping for cushions.
We're just human, with a variety of interests like humans have.
I still would rather be a man than a woman because I think people would take me a lot more seriously. I could run in the woods without feeling wary and I could get promoted past 40 because I would be considered in my prime. I would be sale to watch an action movie without complaining that there are 10 plain looking middle aged male actors who got parts and 2 pretty 20 something women ( in EVERY bloody film!) If I was a man I wouldnt even notice.
I wouldn't feel rage about the world like I feel now, probably.
But like it or not I'm still a woman and so are you.

I think you would have been fine "in the 1950s" btw. There's this weird modern assumption of the 50s based on 1950s postwar U.S advertising, not U.K reality!
Lots of women in the 50s wore no make up (most wore none day to day it was expensive and for going out) and worked in factories with big machines! The pics of my grandma and great aunts show them looking very natural most of the time. They were no nonsense hard working women.
Things in lots of ways have become far more polarised now imo.

Great post and a lot of what you have written resonates with me. I think the important part is that you have grown to accept who you are.
I always wanted to be a boy when I was about 8 as I wanted to go to cubs and not brownies and I didn't enjoy being told I couldn't do things because I was a girl. Other than cubs (which of course years later let girls in) I just learnt to ignore being told I couldn't do things.
However I didn't really want to be a boy I just wanted the same expectations and opportunities that the boys had.

A man after my own manheart!

(Just kidding. A woman. Like me.)

Orlaith...... read the bloody post. The OP says she doesn't like make-up, women's clothes, a bra, wedding ring, etc. She likes to wear men's clothes - that makes her LOOK unfeminine. It's not difficult to grasp.

When DS was about 3 I asked him if he was a boy or a girl. He thought for a moment and then said “I’m me!” You’re a woman. An adult human female, but the rest of it, you’re you.

Do you actually have to ask?

No. The OP didn't have to ask. Tbh this comes across as "ooh look at me, I'm so not like all those other silly women who do all those silly things I look down on"

And let's add a bit of nonsense about the world telling boys ballet isn't for boys.

But do not presume that those of us who present more 'girly/womanly' or choose to wear makeup or have long hair- only talk about makeup or our hair. I like to have conversations that are ever so slightly more interesting

I agree. The OP's has a way to go before she reaches the heights of the narcissistic self-promotion of Fox and Owl but there is tones of it.

You are a woman who doesn’t like to wear make up and has no interest in physical appearance. You are successful in your chosen field, and from what you say are happy in being a mum and in your family. You don’t have to look beyond that. Women can be how they want.

Orlaith...... read the bloody post. The OP says she doesn't like make-up, women's clothes, a bra, wedding ring, etc. She likes to wear men's clothes - that makes her LOOK unfeminine. It's not difficult to grasp*

Who gets to decide that make up etc is what defines you as feminine ?

My husband wears a wedding ring - does that make him feminine ? What about Male hairdresser who wear make up and and has coloured hair - is he feminine ?

And I did read the post thank you , no need to be so rude.

It does slightly irritate me that there seems to be a bit of an assumption by the short hair, make up free, "male" interests type of woman that more feminine women are a bit daft and shallow..
We are all women, and that's it really.

It does slightly irritate me that there seems to be a bit of an assumption by the short hair, make up free, "male" interests type of woman that more feminine women are a bit daft and shallow..
We are all women, and that's it really.

Totally agree. Like being a less feminine woman means your more intelligent, interesting etc because you're doing away with all the frivolous girly stuff.

You can be both! If that's what makes you happy.
In the same way that I shouldn't judge a less feminine woman and assume things about her, you shouldn't so the same!

*do

Captainproton, you are perfect, just as you are

This. What a really lovely thing to say We should all think this about ourselves.

One of the many things that incenses me about the trans activist nonsense is this regression to gender stereotypes that’s being bandied about nowadays.
My generation of feminists fought hard to get rid of this crap.
The only things that women have in common are our XX chromosomes, our female genitals, and our experiences of oppression living in a patriarchy.
Everything else is irrelevant stereotyping. You can be a butch, lesbian, short haired, un made up, muscular engineer who plays rugger as a hobby and sinks pints in the pub - but you’re still a woman.
And someone with XY chromosomes and a penis will never be a woman, however many frilly frocks, wigs, heels and make up they possess. Because “woman” is neither a costume nor a performance stereotype - it’s a dictionary defined physical reality. And you, OP, are a perfectly normal one!

Why do you have to ask? You gave birth; you are female.

Lass I think that's a bit harsh. People's social situations vary widely, not necessarily by their choosing, and few people aren't affected by feeling they don't "fit in", even if they know objectively that it shouldn't matter.

You are a woman not a trans man.

I work in a male dominated industry and profession, have short hair, not everly feminine in how I look. At no point did I start thinking I’m trans man because of my job or the way I dress.

My concern is, if all this is confusing to a grown woman, what a mind fuck it must be doing to all the teenagers and children.

And a lot of it is coming from the ‘right on’ woke progressive education system which the children go through.

Lots of women in the 50s wore no make up (most wore none day to day it was expensive and for going out) and worked in factories with big machines! The pics of my grandma and great aunts show them looking very natural most of the time. They were no nonsense hard working women.
Things in lots of ways have become far more polarised now imo

There is no doubt that women worked hard in the work, but to say that things are more polarised now is just not true. In many professions, and even factory jobs, the marriage bar remained in place - that is, women were expected to leave the workplace on getting married. Within workplaces, work was segregated and women were paid less. Women, if they worked after having had children, often worked part-time. The whole discourse was around women as mothers (think Bowlby and attachment theory).

Advertising was aspirational, as many women did have to work to make ends meet, or chose to access the professions if they had supportive husbands, but often educated women had to follow their husbands' careers, or leave their profession because they were married.

The idea that married women with children had the same opportunities as men and things are more polarised now is simply not true. Where the polarisation exists is in terms of presentation, what it is to be feminine and the amount of preparation on a day to day basis is needed to go out the door! This is not a 1950s development, as you say, but what women wore and what men wore in the 1950s, outside the factories was hardly gender-neutral either. Also, after the Second World War, many women were forced back into domesticity as the kindergartens closed and the jobs were given back to demobilised men.

Consider also single parents - utterly frowned upon in the 1950s, divorce hardly known and a scandal. Until the divorce reform of the 1970s it was easier for a men to get divorced than a woman.

So, I do not actually think it is as easy as saying the OP would fit right in in the 1950s. The opportunities the OP has come from the campaigns of the late nineteenth century for women to access employment and education, yes - but that women would not be barred from the workplace on having children, that is second wave feminism, the Equality Act of 1978. Let's not underestimate the progress which women have made, and which we need to fight to keep.

Bold fail in the first paragraph

And of course, my first line should read 'There is no doubt that women worked hard in the 1950s...'

And many other decades besides.

I think you are living in a state of denial if you don't realise that
Short hair, tall, works in STEM, assertive, wears trousers, no makeup, equates "masculine".
But indeed who decides these types of traits and many others mean "masculine"? I'll give you a clue.... and it begins with a "P".

I adore being a woman - I absolutely love it. I grew up with brothers and I just would not want to be a man for anything.

I love that women express themselves in so many different ways - whether they have long hair or a buzz cut, wear skirts or trousers, I find women completely fascinating.

The differences between other women and me are endless - and yet the joy is that we all share our bodies and biology in common. We know that women can create an entire world and that life is handed on from woman to woman. This makes me feel like I'm connected to every single woman since time began.

Let's enable our daughters and granddaughters to know what a gift they have been given by being born female. Let's enable them to be whoever they want within their own, individual beautiful female bodies.

I couldn't save my own daughter from starting the path of transitioning - but all it's made me feel is more certain and sure that no one can change sex, and that we all need to work really hard to support and encourage girls and women to be proud of who they are, and to feel absolutely no shame in being their authentic biological selves.

The thing is that it doesn't matter whether we 'identify' as women (or men) or not - we just are. You can't change your biology however much you want to. It obviously matters for your mental health if it is making you miserable but I remain unconvinced that chopping bits off (or sticking bits on) otherwise beautiful healthy bodies and making yourself effectively infertile is the best solution.

Incidentally (maybe not relevant) but since I went through pregnancy and childbirth (and even a subsequent miscarriage) I have had more respect and awe for my body and biology than ever before. I might have chunky thighs and pasty skin but I made a fucking human and kept him alive for 6 months exclusively by myself. I wish men were able to have such revelations about their bodies too - human biology really is amazing.