What am I?

[captainproton]

I am female but I work in a traditionally male role. I don’t wear a wedding ring because it would get damaged. I am tall and wear men’s clothes because they fit on the arms better, and they have pockets for my pens/screwdrivers etc.

I decided long ago that I wanted to present androgynous at work/life so as not to be judged by a female appearance. Having grown up around males who never held me back I have emulated the way they operated through life. I wanted the opportunities males had and the fun life they had (if you like the smell and hum of machinery) and went for it. Yes I have come across sexism and been groped by dick heads. But not in over a decade (since I stopped being sexually attractive I suppose). Being tall I can look men in the eye or down on them if they are short. I have a quick wit and will use it against any man who thinks I do the cleaning at home and my husband the diy.

I don’t wear bras if I can help it, nor make-up or heels. My personal grooming mirrors that of men. If men are required by social standards to deplete their hair in that area then so do I. That basically just means I take care of facial hair and anything that might show when swimming.

I am a mother and I have breastfed and am proud of my body for these things. It’s about the only time I felt proud of my body. And believe me I have wished I was born male because it’s hard sometimes being the only female and facing really big hurdles to be accepted.

what am I in this modern world? I stand at the school gates and listen to a female world discussing hair, nails, makeup and now it seems eyebrows? I have never taken a selfie in my life. I find it all so vain and tbh pointless. And I am lost. I am more comfortable around men, and I don’t flirt with them. Although I did meet my husband at work but that was long ago and took 6 years to develop. Our discussions at work revolve around things like “are the lunar landings real”.

Btw if it’s relevant I am very concerned about safeguarding issues around self ID.

A female friend of mine said once that my small circle of mum friends found me endearing because I literally couldn’t give a shit about what I wore and looked like.

Because I consciously dress in men’s clothes and choose to follow the social rules that apply to men. Does it make me a trans man?

I am confused now and I wasn’t before. I feel like a rabbit hole has opened up, I thought I was part of the females trying to even the playing field, an example to my daughters but now I am no longer sure!

What is supposed to be the differences in genders then? If it’s not your anatomy or how you Present?

Well from what I can gather the answer is how you feel? Does your innate sense of whether you are a male or female match up with what your body says? Which is a massively subjective thing - surely we can all have times when what we feel inside doesn't match the outer appearance. The disconnect with physical reality now is that many people say that they were never a man or woman, they were really the other (or neither) all along but the silly old doctors 'assigned' the wrong sex at birth. I find that a bit worrying really. If we take away any physical classification of who is man or woman, what are we left with? Subjective and changeable feelings.

And yet women are still and have always been disadvantaged because of their physical characteristics so surely these things need some form of protection in law.

Should have said

Second wave feminism - late 1960, 1970s and into the 1980s

Third wave feminism - late 1980s and 1990s into early 2000s

Queer theory - 1990s until now.

My post was trying to explain when these different ideas gained currency. Not sure if it makes sense

KataraJean I appreciate the time taken - you gave a really good explanation of how the gender/sex theories have changed over the years. To someone who is new to the theory side of things that's really clear and helpful thank you.

You are a woman. Who dresses and acts and lives in a way that suits her.

Your biology is what makes you a woman. The rest is just clothes and personality

In this brave new world, if you say you are a man

• that would be respected, you would be acknowledged as such

• will you be treated differently? People would probably tiptoe around for fear of getting your pronouns wrong, but if push came to shove, I expect in the unfortunate event you came into the path of a rapist, your assumed pronouns would not stop him. And, as you say, menstruation would continue and you would still have given birth to DC and have the past of a woman.

• but I do not think you would have to use the male bathrooms, no. Most women recognise that transmen still have female biological needs. The problem is solved by talking about menstruating people, so men can menstruate too - having periods is no bar to being a man in this brave new world.

Katarajean thank you. It is sort of making sense, but I am still learning about feminism and ideas about gender. It has only ever became important to me once I had a daughter.

And If I was 20 years younger I definitely think I would have identified as a man as younger woman / teenager.

And if I was born 80 years ago I think I would’ve hated my life immensely. There is no way I would have ever conformed to be a typical young woman of the 1950s.

This trans self ID is going to fuck a lot of vulnerable heads up. It’s messing with mine so lord knows what’s happening to younger men/women.

I know, it's weird. I saw a National geographic a few years ago which had people representing several different gender identical on the cover. I think if these 'choices' had been around even I was younger I might have dabbled in a bit of identifying as a bloke. The thing is, it's all so regressive, placing labels on everything, very specific labels and demanding others comply accurately with whatever gender identity is chosen. Gender is fluid, it's a nothing. It's all about how we present ourselves, like dressing up, or acting out a role. Labelling some interests as male and others female is bonkers. Seems so juvenile somehow. Who cares what people wear? It may be interesting to young people, but the older and wiser we get, the less this shit matters. These archaic and restrictive definitions of male and female dress codes and behaviour are not new, they are ancient ingrained systems for keeping women (and men) in their place. The gender binary should be smashed, not reinforced by these old fashioned ideas about what girls and boys can play with or wear. That's nonsense.
What you are doing is smashing the gender binary, in your own low key way, you are being your own woman, and you are definitely a woman because your biological sex is fixed. You are no less a woman because you choose not to wear stereotypical women's clothes, and you work in a job which is traditionally the domain of men. You sound clever and funny and I would love a friend like you. Please stop thinking about what you are. You are you. Definitely a woman, and a really cool one at that!

Watch the 'woman's place' talks on YouTube.
m.youtube.com/results?search_query=A+woman’s+place

Right now my daughter (4) is putting on make up. Clearly feminine.

Except when she’s finished she’ll look like a cat clown. (She’s just said mouse). Normal 4 year old.

I saw a short film with a bunch of butch lesbians talking about the impact genderism has had on them and the interview that really stuck with me was the woman who said, well, it's like feeling fat - you may have previously felt quite happy with yourself but if people are constantly asking you about your diet plans, if you want to lose weight, have you considered losing weight, skip that and directly to "so how is your diet going?", then eventually you're likely to start asking yourself "wait, should I be on a diet?"

Except with "gender" and "are you transitioning?", "what are your pronouns?" and so on. It's social pressure and it wears people down if they get constant indications that other people think something about them is or should be seen as a problem, even if in terms of their own internal sense of self it doesn't feel like a problem at all.

So basically calling myself a man will just mean a change in pronouns and more people avoiding me. Biology means I cannot really be a man. But because I wasn’t fortunate enough to have been born with a penis I can’t use the male spaces.

So yet again I hate being a woman. Having the more complicated biology holds me back. But if I had a penis literally every fucking door is open to me.

I hate being female for this reason alone.

I owe it to my children and every other child in the country to think about this. To try and work it out, because if I as a mother can’t be happy as a woman then what world are we creating for them. It is they who have to try to find their place in it as they grow up. I can’t just ignore what’s going on.

attackkittrns wow that's a really powerful analogy, very helpful. I feel so sad for young people being bombarded with all this. I've certainly been assumed to be a lesbian in my time, and have been very happy to be a puzzle to some people. Never doubted I'm a woman though, very happy being a non conforming one.

I have to go out now so will Think about this some more.

You have got a womb, so you are a woman, albeit not a feminine one.

I absolutely agree about the importance of trying to work it out, I just cannot agree that changing one’s body by hormones, binders and surgery is the solution.

I don’t hate being a woman, though like all of us I’ve suffered for it, both biologically (eg painful menstruation) and, far more, socially (misogyny and gendered expectations). Despite this I love being a woman, i love my clever body and what it can do even though I’ve never given birth nor expect to. I love female solidarity. I love women. Men don’t get that.

And penises are overrated (mind you, I am a lesbian). The only reason one might come in handy for me would be the ability to pee standing up. I can’t think of any other use for one. I love my clitoris and ability to have multiple orgasms.

Don’t let society tell you to hate your body, that means they’ve won. The second wave feminists had consciousness raising workshops precisely to address this. The most radical thing you can do is love your female body just as it is.

DuggeesWoggle thank you

You are a woman.

But do not presume that those of us who present more 'girly/womanly' or choose to wear makeup or have long hair- only talk about makeup or our hair. I like to have conversations that are ever so slightly more interesting

It is worrying and shows how dangerous gender ideology is, that if you (OP) were growing up now you almost certainly would be encouraged to go down the trans path, change your name, insist on male pronouns, have a mastectomy, take testosterone.
All because women like yourself, gender non-conforming, "masculine" are not permitted to exist anymore. If you are like this now you must actually "be a man".

You ask what is gender? Well your situation is an example of what it is, a collection of arbitrary stereotypes (working in STEM/care work, wearing trousers/skirts, makeup/no makeup etc) applied to each sex by society (a patriarchal society let me remind you) and gender theorists say if you subscribe to the arbitrary stereotypes given to each sex then you must definitely be of that sex and if you don't you must actually be of the opposite sex.
Then trans ideology exploded and low and behold suddenly there becomes the perfect way to uphold and reinforce sex-based stereotypes by convincing non-conformists (which includes virtually everyone in one way or another) that if they don't conform it's because they are the opposite gender.

It's a harmful ideology and it is damaging to the feminist cause of widening women's possibilities but benefits the patriarchy by limiting them once more.

You are a gender non-conforming woman with insight into the male dominated nature of your field and it's not surprising you felt for a long time you would fit in more if you "were a man" but the fact is no one can change sex. I admire you but I worry people like you will be erased by trans ideology in the future.

Basically what the world needs is more women like you saying:
Women can do this, women can wear this, women can think like this, women can behave like this, and if all of those things are stereotypically male then so what? Feminists have been trying to smash this for decades.

The most obvious thing about trans ideology is how male-led it is. Men don't want men wearing skirts and makeup tarnishing the pure-brand "male" so they insist any man doing this is "actually a woman", excludes them from male space to spare them discomfort particularly of a homophobic nature, and obviously any man doing this himself has worked out the perfect way to get into female spaces so the whole thing is win-win for men.
But ask any man if he thinks transmen are men it'll be a firm no. Especially from gay men.

Good reminder grannyscobwebs, thanks for that

captain many of the things you say resonate with me but I have long since come to the conclusion that we are all unique individuals. I'm me. You are you. Love and accept yourself. You are fine just the way you are.

Q: Who am I?
A: I am myself.

I would say it depends.

If you’re so woke you read the student newspaper at Edinburgh Uni as the gospel of all truths and beacon of the fight against “hatred”, you’re probably “non-binary”.

If you don’t, you’re a woman who won’t be bound by societal expectations.

You have got a womb, so you are a woman, albeit not a feminine one

Can you explain this to me please ? I dont understand what you say the OP isnt feminine . Who gets to decide what is feminine ?

Lots of women i know like space or engineering . So to me thats a feminine interest.

Who’s is in charge of decisinhg what’s a masculine and feminine job, hobby or clothing ?

You're a woman, and you have exactly the same thing in common with all women that we all have. What I have in common with you is what we also have in common with our mothers, with Joan of Arc, with Hillary Clinton, Mary Queen of Scots, Teresa May, the abused girls in Rochdale, Yazidi women enslaved by Isis, Saudi women who are treated as property, Malawian girls married at 13, Miss Universe, Melania Trump, butch lesbians, drag kings, Lucy the primitive ancestor, and yes, even Myra Hindley and Rose West.

Being female is simply a state of biology. It isn't a fun club of people with shared hobbies and similar personalities. We are as unique and individual from each other in personality as every man is from other men.

Our commonality is our bodies and what they can do, that men's bodies can't.

The difference between us and men could, and should end there.

But it doesn't.

Our biology marks us as recognisably distinct from men. Yet instead of recognising that distinction and being part of a society that treats the two classes of humanity as equals, our lives instead are funneled down a chute made for us by men, and we find ourselves in a pit at the bottom, now with more common ground resulting from our unfair treatment that rises over and above our biology.

There will always be two sexes. And each of us will always belong to our own sex until we die.
All that remains is whether we do anything about the chute and the bloody pit, and who is being funneled down it and why we picked them for that treatment.