Definition of man and woman used in the GRA consultation

[Elisheva]

Apologies if this has been discussed already. I emailed the GRA consultation to ask which definitions of man/woman and male/female the government were using. This is the reply:

*The definitions you asked for are not provided [in the document]. However, to provide some context, the term ‘gender’ is is often the term used in the context of the Gender Recognition Act and the gender transition process. Although many people make a distinction between a person’s sex and their gender, this is not a distinction that is often re-produced in day-to-day usage of the terms, nor in the law, which uses the two terms interchangeably.

Indeed, in the text of the current GRA (section 9) it is stated that a person who changes their gender using the process outlined in the Act is also considered to have changed their sex.

Thank you for taking the time to write to the Government Equalities Office*

I’m not sure what to reply. There is so much wrong with this that I’m not sure it’s even worth engaging with.

If women and female are synonymous

What about girls? They are female. Shouldn't they be women?

Is a female rabbit a woman?

Etc

Your ideas need more work they are not logically consistent.

Unless you want to change the meanings of lots of other words as well. And then claim that they always meant that. And anyone who says otherwise is a bastard trying to do trans people down.

That's proper Orwell territory.

Women and female are synonymous.
Not really. Female could refer to other species of animals. Female is about the individual having a female reproductive system. Women refers to adult human females specifically. In our everyday language, they are often used as though they mean the same thing, but they are not.
Sex and gender are synonymous.
Sometimes they are used as though they mean the same thing, but they clearly aren't. Sex is biological.
Even Stonewall says this:
Gender
Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.
Trans women are women and trans women are adult human females.
Nope. Because if they were, they wouldn't be trans. They would just be women because their biological sex would be observed to be female. Every trans woman must be biologically male, or they wouldn't have anything to transition from/to. If sex at birth did not matter at all, then biological females could say they also are trans women. But that wouldn't make any sense at all, would it?
Trans women are trans women. None of them are biologically of the female sex. As such, they technically do not fit the actual definition of the word "woman."

You can reject it as much as you want but you just are. You are cis.

Do that three times on this forum and you'll get a ban.

Ah yes I remember it so well now.. when my daughter was born the midwife decided to assign my daughter female.
Peak peak peak
The more people who hear this shit being spouted the better

notveryblissful I’m still confused about how you would define trans/woman/man, but maybe you could explain when you think it is necessary to distinguish between men and women?

Personally 90% of the time I just want to be treated as a human being. I only want my sex to be taken into account when absolutely necessary. I don’t want anybody to make any presumptions about my identity.

The problem is that when my sex does need to be taken into account, it is absolutely necessary and it is because I was born female and have the physical characteristics that go with being female. This would be true whatever my identity - I am never going to produce sperm/grow 6 inches/have male upper body strength. I will always have to be treated as somebody who was born female by doctors. Barring evolutionary leaps I cannot see a time when it won’t be sometimes necessary to distinguish between people who are born female and people who are born male. Some of those differences have led to discrimination against women - because they are expected to bear children, because they can be physically dominated by men - but they can’t be avoided - even with hormones and a GRC.

In a civilised society we can create laws that prevent discrimination and protect women but how can we do that if we can’t objectively explain who they are?

Loving the idea that medics needed a special word to identify which women in front of them were actually of the female sex.
Bollocksmcbollocksmccuntingfuckinhbollocks.

Wow. It wasn't long ago that someone was saying that if TRAs got away with appropriating 'women' they'd be after 'female' next. And here we are.

Cis as an objective reality! No it was invented just a few years ago, and even at the time it was pointed out as a path towards denying reality and totalitarianism. You also know nothing about academia if you think that one person inventing a new jargon means that it should be immediately accepted as normal. There's several academics who used to hang out on these boards who could give you 'objective' information about that.

Actually, Notveryblissful, and I'm going to 'speak' s l o w l y so that someone as stupid as you appear to be, can u n d e r s t a n d.

The dictionary d e f i n i t i o n of FEMALE is biological and states:

of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

Please note the use of the word 'SEX' & 'biologically,' and nothing about feelz or identity.

Also, we are not anti-trans, we are pro- women's rights, which excludes transwomen because they are men.

There are too many comments for me to bother replying to, and I also just don't have the time, energy or inclination to deal with some of the turf rubbish put forward here.

So that’ll be a no on explaining the difference between men and women then.

Has anyone else come across "Beetroot Brownies"?

My DD was making some today. Some sort of tray-cake incorporating beetroot. She sent me a photo, but I'm not terribly convinced.

your twisted definitions of female/woman/gender/sex are true.

Those twisted actual dictionary definitions?

Ah once again plop plop no answers to perfectly polite questions because they’re “too turfy” and off they go wheeee!

From: a cunty woman. You know. A proper adult human female one. Not a man one.

@merrymouse if you need someone to explain it to you maybe you should go back to school

Define objective reality...

@Badgerthebodger no one is saying you aren't a woman, no one is delegitimising your identity or reality as a woman, the GRA doesn't affect you or your rights. The fact you feel the need to call yourself a "cunty woman" just suggests some serious insecurity tbqh

Of course it fucking does if the definition of women includes men. 🙄

In other words, Notveryblissful, you can't answer our questions, so you're doing what they all do, and going off in a huff.

Even if you tried to answer them though, it would show your reasoning to be weak, circular and without scientific basis. In that way, you may as well try to save face by flouncing away, pretending 'we just don't understand you'.

science check you all eloquent and I'm just crabbit and swearing

Just come in from a night out. Someone upthread mentioned a "twisted defintion of female/woman". Can anyone enlighten me on what this might be? It's coming up to Halloween and I'm building up an appetite for twisted definitions...

A big thank you to Not on behalf of all those people we know are reading right now but not posting (thanks to the lurkers thread - waves!)

A great thread playing-out along the lines of Maya Angelou's lovely phrase 'when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time'

Thank you for your reply notveryblissful. I clearly remember learning about reproduction in mammals in biology and I have explained why I believe it is necessary to distinguish between men and women - physical differences. What I don’t understand from your posts is how you would distinguish between men and women and why.

Thanks, Galvantula . I'm actually wanting to stab things though

Yes, pombear, I think all the lurkers can see the gaslighting for what it is. I hope no one reports the posts where not is being deliberately provocative in their choice of language, especially after pp's have asked them to stop.